One of my readers commented on my INFJ vs. INFP article and asked how INFPs can stop other people from taking them for granted. This article is written in response to that question.
Why are INFPs taken for granted?
This has to do with their Fi combined with their Ne auxiliary function. Both functions deal with emptiness. Fi is inner emptiness (or a fullness that can’t be articulated easily) and Ne deals with outer emptiness, like outer space. In total this leads to the INFP being hard to see. Also, in America, INFP is probably the least favored of types due to America being like an ESTP temperament at enneatype 3. Everyone pays attention to this type. It is the typical airheaded girl or guy that is nonetheless like a particularly attractive and shiny surface.
It’s not that INFPs are unattractive either. It’s just that they are so hard to see. In essence, they are the invisible type – invisible inside and out.
Fi is invisible enough by itself. Like a ninja in operation, it often depends on being undetected. INFPs are often the ones that just quietly give of themselves here and there without thinking twice about it. They are genuinely nurturing and affirming of others. Selfless, they don’t expect anything in return when they give. And they often give as a matter of course. At least to their loved ones, those they have developed some degree of rapport and depth of relationship with.
And yet, often these cherished friends and loved ones don’t treat them particularly nice.
I think part of the reason for this is human psychology and the other part is cultural – living in America for example.
I think most people have heard that being nice and genuine doesn’t pay. You gotta be tough, cutthroat, looking out for your own prerogatives. No one cares about you deep inside. If you want to make it in this world, you gotta stand up for yourself. Assert yourself. And even be mean and nasty on occasion.
An INFP is pretty much incapable of being mean. They can grow sullen and withdrawn over many years of abuse but they still will not “kick at the pricks” so to speak. Add to this quality of innate kindness, a certain patience and rather stoical attitude to emotional suffering. This comes from their Si tertiary function. It’s sort of like the “carry on” function. There is no use in getting all riled up about the whole dilemma of mistreatment.
So, this is part of the reason that INFPs are taken for granted. People will come to them instinctively as a place to dump their troubles. Where no one else will listen to them, an INFP will if you get into their good graces, which isn’t that hard. Just show up with a sob story. An INFP feels a natural tenderness and protective instinct to anyone in suffering. If you approach them in a rather soft and undramatic way, you can likely insinuate your way into their good graces.
This doesn’t mean that they take in every stray cat and dog lying in the street. INFP has a natural discrimination and filtering system to keep them away from true dire straits type of people. It is more that the friends that they do have often unconsciously hone in on them as the ones who will accept their emotional garbage and disarray. And to be fair to these INFP friends, INFPs often set themselves up to be in exactly this position. This is a fact of human psychology. If you energetically open yourself up to others as their assuager, they will avail themselves of the assuaging at every opportunity. If you are so selfless as to be everyone’s pillow of comfort, they will take the pillow and forget about the pillow-giver as they drift off into slumber.
Why do people at large treat the most genuinely nice people like shit? Well, I don’t know, but it certainly has something to do with humanity’s present level of evolution. In a more perfect and ideal world, INFPs would be lauded and recognized. I could picture a species of angels that are off the karmic wheel that do nothing but tend to missions of mercy, who out of love and kindness tend thoughtlessly to those in suffering. They succor misery. They throw a healing fire into the hearts of those who lie dying in pain.
So, we have these three things:
- Innate invisibility due to functional setup
- The reality of human psychology to suck the breast dry
- INFPs in the particular temperamental climate of America, which renders them even more invisible
How INFP can stop being taken for granted
Part of the problem I see here is in the particular temperament of American life. In America, we have the conditioning from a young age of having to be somebody. Who are you going to be? What important profession and career are you going to follow that is going to make you viable in the competition for resources and prestige? What skills are you going to develop to make you the fittest in this competition and to take advantage of the boundless opportunities in a free market to better yourself?
To an INFP, bettering themselves doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being an important person that everyone recognizes and is in awe of. They are quiet people who quietly go about their day pursuing their dreams in little ways.
In little and countless ways they give to those around them. But, if you give, you should take credit for it. That’s the only way to move up in the world. You have to trumpet to the four winds that you provided value. Let people know that you are important and valuable. Honestly, amidst the density of the average American, you have to hit people over the head with your virtues. And when you do, they respect you even more. “Hey, there is real go-getter. Nice. Keep up the good work.” Americans respect people that look after themselves.
And in general, in human psychology at present, people everywhere respect those that command respect. By and large, people will respect whomever can prove they are master. It comes down to the whole “will-to-power” thing Nietzsche was talking about. If you have the power to do it, then who can say nay? People instinctively respect and submit obedience to those who are stronger than them.
It is possible that the INFP, of all the types, is least susceptible to this “might is right” dictum. They might not know it on an intellectual level, but in their hearts, where they live, they know with a stony and unbending clarity. And you know what they think about it? “What a bunch of high-falutin bullshit” is what they think. Yes, it is hard to dupe an INFP with all the flowery rhetoric of the world, all the epic contortions of logic used to justify mass murder and the like. Actually, the best way to dupe them is by an appeal to their sympathies. They are suckers for sob stories and any politician who seems genuine in helping the poor and unfortunate. But they cannot abide any rationale that espouses meanness and cracking the whip down on the dumb herd. They, least of all types, can abide this. But, they often don’t know what to do about it. Unlike, say, the ISFJ, who possessed enough pragmatism and cleverness, in addition to their innate abhorrence of suffering, to effect a slave revolt in morality.
No, INFPs are often in that completely helpless middle position. They know enough but they often can’t formulate it in a way that anyone takes seriously. They have an innate indignance that often backfires on them. They feel strongly and deeply a feeling of absolute rightness and righteousness that, again, is difficult to put into words or simple and elegant formulas that the average herd dweller can understand. Scientific herd dwellers not excluded.
And INFP isn’t like an ISFP who can just as well tell the whole world of science and education to go hang itself and just go live in a marginal condition somewhere. No, INFPs are naturally, upper middle class types. They often inherit an attitude of an innate superiority and a certain elitism that puts them above the dirty street dwellers. INFPs grow up in a sort of bubble and remove from the shit of life. It is often this naivety and lack of experience with these elements at a young age that prevents them from being thrown into the street to make necessity the mother of invention. ISFPs, for example, generally know all about this. They don’t have the same protection of innate moral and ideological superiority as an INFP.
It would probably be bad advice to tell an INFP just to be tougher, stand up for yourself, and to tell the pricks to go to hell. Because they won’t. It seems they aren’t capable of it.
I see more a battle of attrition going on with the INFP, a slow wearing away of those stony rocks. A quiet, and sometimes, quirky insistence on one’s inherent beliefs and morals. Yes, quirkiness, that is the key. See, INFPs have that bedrock strength. They really are quite tough in a way. No one can make them budge off their moral certainty. I mean no one. Nothing can make them change their deep conviction about what they feel is right. You can beat the living shit out of them and they will cry and weep. You can pour on heaps of emotional abuse and psychological torture and they will go to pieces. And then they will reassemble themselves and carry on as if nothing happened. They will forget you and fade you. And themselves and whatever else. Except this conviction that cannot be eradicated. You cannot make an INFP believe anything which they don’t inherently believe. Like during the Inquisition when they would pour boiling metal into your mouth unless you said that you believed in god, the INFP would probably be one of the last to recant. They are some stubborn motherfuckers. Believe this. And not flashy about it either.
So, as an answer to some of the foregoing, I would say it is when they engage their quirkiness, which amounts to their auxiliary extraverted intuition, is where they are going to have the most success in standing out and not being taken for granted. I know I already said that Ne is an invisible function on the outer plane, similar to how Fi is invisible on the inner plane, but, nonetheless (pun?) their Ne will give them an attractive and shining invisibility, if that makes any sense.
You know what? The best way to explain this is to show an instance of it. Go watch the movie Pretty in Pink
So, check it out and let me know what you think.
Thank you for posting this Blake! Why do you think INFPs are incapable of being tougher, standing up for themselves and telling people off? What about developing Te?
An INFP can uses their Fi into becoming more assertive. Changing an INFPs personality and perspective can allow them to be more assertive. They must posses a thorough understanding in what Fi can benifit them.
I would never recommend the development of an inferior function. That would be like telling a fish to learn how to live on land.
No, my across-the-board recommendation for all types is to learn to develop the auxiliary function. This is the sublimation function. It’s basic purpose is to heal the dominant-inferior schism. It also has implication for healing the id-superego schism as well. Suffice to say, whatever is at the auxiliary is truly magical if put into operation. Which it often isn’t. Why? Because it doesn’t seem important. Which is the very reason that it works like magic.
For INFPs, this would be extraverted intuition. I should and will write more about the development of this function as an auxiliary. I think the basic keyword for Ne auxiliary is “expansion”. Whereas for an INFJ with Fe auxiliary it would be “expression”. There are subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences between these two basic principles.
INFPs are not incapable of being tough, it’s just when they get into that mode it tends to hurt them more than it would hurt anyone else. INFPs can be more effective when they set an intention and remain open to the opportunity to expand it into the environment. It has a gentle and allowing character to it. There is nothing forceful about it. The best analogy I can think of is the birthing process. The cervix must dilate as much as possible to allow for the new child to come forth into the world. To fight this process only prolongs the birth. It is the way of nature at it’s purest.
Anyway, there is something about this process that I see as particularly relevant for INFPs in the way of acceptance, allowance, and expansion. Something about expanding a love impulse.
The thing you are talking about is a mostly negative and id-like process for INFP. Every INFP has an INTJ id and when they get reactive and emotional they tend to act out of this part of their nature. The trouble is that the id is raw and undifferentiated. It tends to not serve the best interests of the person. At least not past a certain early developmental stage. I allude to the INTJ id in this article when I mention “an indignance that backfires”, the INFP having an innate filtering system that keeps undesirables away from them, and a certain feeling of good breeding and a sort of upper-class and educated (sometimes snobby) comportment to them.
I’ll have to write more about all this.
1- I usually get tired of reading psychology because of some assumption that there is so less action element in my life that reading extensively about how to do things seems fooly. So, but I do check posts to have a taste of the language and learn how to write and all. This one is very nice and simple which I like too.. I like it when people write and they are so neat and clean with words and structure of sentences reflect humble and down to earth sort of style.. So, but the 9th paragraph of this post (REcommendations for INFPs) and its middle section was amazing.. I really enjoyed reading it. That’s where I felt like there was great exhibition of expression…
Also, a little complain from all psychology cum personal development writers here. They make human personalities look so cold and predictable and usual and scientific that it takes away the charm of individual personality types. I mean, what was written in the post could easily be said in form of a novel, individual stories, exciting discourses or in form of biographies. But all the conclusions and lessons from personality types were just plainly mentioned with a strong self belief of ‘its human psychology’ I think that was something I found uncomfortable to bear when I read different writers.
2- I got something from there that it is so easy for people to trick infps on basis of emotional persuasion. I didn’t realize that before. So, thank you. I’ll be more careful about it.
3- I think I as an infp get this intuition of who is genuine about his/her claims when approaches me for an attention. I think my filter mechanism works just fine, except my metabolism.. lol
4- The post combines human psychology through personality types with basic society and cultural issues (in this case, United States) so, I think I liked that feature of this post… This shows genuine thought which is different from mainstream and a good research ability… However, I being a Pakistani, could also relate the points fairly well somehow.. which is good for me.
5- I agree, there is sense of inner feeling of superiority in infps when they don’t attempt to get into rat race, competition, unnecessary desires for grabbing the ranks etc.. So, may be they aren’t intelligent enough from society viewpoint or are considered naive but thats where diversity lies. What’s the purpose of perusing things which won’t give them satisfaction? But its not the end of the world for them. The positive element is that they can just achieve anything in this world if they use their qualities like adding some more picture to why certain things are necessary to achieve. I think they can be like conquerors of the world if they just find it close to their hearts (mind).
Im not tough, im not mean, i cant even talk shit,
but if i get attacked ‘ im beating that ass!
Just ask all the sorry suckers who had to find this out the hardway HAHA!
This makes a whole lot of sense. INFPs, especially my friend in particular, holds an internal sense of ideology that cannot be obstructed at all costs. The INFP community is genuinely nice, simple, selfless and nurturing. They are not accustomed towards violence and negative realities. INFPs evaluate the situation based on optimism, magnifying the good in other people instead of identifying reality and society’s weaknesses. This leaves them disassociated with what reality can benefit them, reality allows an individual to embolden themselves, forming an assertive side as our arsenal. Instead of dealing wih reality (turning the odds into their favor), they force a retreat into the INFP “dreamland”, neglecting their intelligence and adaptability as whole. These people suffer obstacles as they strike into the realm of the real world, INFPs need to learn how to assert themselves, based on their Fi. Fi is a component of an INFP’s dominant fiction, an INFPs analyse the situation based on Fi itself. The fundamental usage of Fi is to evaluate everything based on their internal attributes and values. Fi means living eternally, processing reality and fantasy based on what they are comfortable at or what they think is right. They’re requiremnets consits of staying true to themselves, an internal way of living of you ask me, it does not have to do with the stereotypical way of anticipating a situation and making decisions. INFPs take very personal measures upon reality, which isn’t a bad thing either. If the INFP knows how to channel their Fi onto emphasising the importance of taking advantage of realities obstacles they will be alright. At least they’ve acknowledged a profound method of dealling with reality. Their personal standards and judgements must meet realities standards and judements. Like I’ve said many times, turn the odds into your favor and you will prevail. The amount of comfort an INFPs fantasy dreamland an INFP can recieve will subtract their adaptability with dealing will reality. Extroverted Intuition, an ability of viewing the world as a medium of countless possibilities allow the INFP personality type to be indecisive, they are positive thinkers that observe every angle and possibility of the situation, making them highly indecisive. Let’s make an assumption, an INFP has found out 5 methods of dealing with a situation, this is a moment in which both Fi and Fe must take place on an equal scale. Fi is a function of deciding what’s best for them, Fe on the other hand decides what’s best for almost everyone (disagreements are prone to surface, which makes it hard for turbulent INFPs, allowing them to be more indecisive). An INFP needs to channel their decisions based on Fi, Fe and Ti. Ti represents rational consistency. If an INFP becomes more well-rounded, it will be easier for them to adapt into reality. Basically I am trying to say that the INFP characteristics makes it even harder for an INFP to adapt and survive in reality.
I’m an INFJ but some of this sounds like me. Although if I’ m being tortured I’m saying whatever the hell I need to say to make it stop. I won’t believe in what I’m saying but I’ll make you think I believe it. Is that the difference in Fe and Fi?
Well, first of all, INFPs and INFJs do have some similarities. There is no getting around that. It is kind of like they are very similar if you look at them from a far distance. However, the closer you get, you will start to see more and more things that don’t match between them. And much of these dissimilarities all seems in the nature of infinite subtleties. Because they are both subtle and refined romantic types.
I suppose much of the difference in these subtleties lies in the realm of their dominant-tertiary. INFJs have Ni-Ti and INFPs have Fi-Si. Both these pairs of functions can be awfully subtle and intricate. But, in completely different realms and for different reasons.
INFPs have the home, family, domestic kind of thing going with their Fi-Si. INFJs emphatically don’t. INFJs have the ideas for their own sake kind of mentality. They love to ruminate and philosophize about the nature of existence at the expense of their relationships and tending to the domestic inevitabilities of settled life.
Yet, INFPs can be wanderers themselves. But, they tend to prefer actually wandering in physical reality. Seeing many different cultures and climates etc.
An INFJ can be in a room there whole life and have traveled places no one has ever been to. Except maybe Syd Barrett.
INFPs are receptive to SJ types. INFJs aren’t. INFPs love Si. INFJs hate it. INFPs hate Ti. INFJs love it. That is one way to tell them apart. Do you like logic, puzzles, and as I said ideas for their own sake? If yes, probaly not an INFP. Probaly. Like sitting around talking about philosophy for its own sake? Art for its own sake? Things for their own sake? Much more likely to be an INFJ in that case.
Who would buckle quicker under torture of the sort devised by those historical Inquisitioners?
Well, an INFJ would probaly just treat the whole matter in an expedient way and lie to save their ass. INFJs do this as a matter of course. They don’t really care if anyone knows what they really feel as long as they are left alone. This is when they will use their Fe chameleon suit to put forth whatever seems prudent at any given time.
But, then again, there are those rather absolute INFJs who will die for what they believe in. So, I can’t say it is really a type thing. Sometimes a great INFJ will allow themselves to be killed for symbolic reasons. An INFP wouldn’t do that. They would most likely allow themselves to be killed for less abstruse reasons. Such as the larder being empty all across this politically corrupt nation of ours. Gotta remember the Si pull of INFPs.
Fi is deep conviction. But, then again, it can also be lazy and cowardly. I think it is these two extremes you see represented by Fi types. I think you see more of the lazy and cowardly in ISFP types than INFPs who tend to have a better developed sense of responsibility and tending to the flock kind of thing. ISFPs are more variable this way.
INFJs are off-the-wheel in this sense. They don’t tend to take morality that serious in the final analysis. Or they take it way too seriously. More extreme.
They may die for what they believe in or they may lie to protect what they truly believe in apart from outer garments of that worship. INFJs believe in a rather indestructible life of some sort. Call it what you want. They often don’t care. They will lie to get along better in the outer world, which is all rather negligible to them. Though they have this fierce sense of self and the importance of this self that they would hate to die and not have everyone have such an interesting member of the species around any longer.
INFPs are more akin to a spider that will let its young prey off it so that they may grow stronger and more vital. It is OK with being eaten and sacrificed in the name of its offspring.
INFJs? No, they are more selfish and in the final analysis find themselves (their true self) the most worthwhile thing going in all of existence. And due to their Fi id they will never stop feeling guilty about feeling so special. If an INFJ sacrifices themselves it will be more of an absolute kind of final decision that they make after a long period of torture rather than having this sacrificial attitude as a matter of course. It wouldn’t be a business as usual type thing.
Oy vey with these two already.
It is infuriating how much these two are alike but really aren’t. It is all so nuanced and intricate the thousand and one ways that they aren’t. And it is so simple to say how they are basically very similar.
BLAKE YOU FUCKING RULE SO HARD AAAAAA!!!!
As an INFJ(i guess) i need to say I feel as vulnerable as the INFP, and all those things are real to me. Actually, maybe my Fe makes me suffer even more, because I could start acting like someone that wont be fooled, but i don’t want to….and my self awareness makes me feel even more naive to people. I mean, i know im naive but i don’t know if Im really naive or if Im just acting like that….i just want to be myself and not worry about how people will take advantage of me if i show my sensitivity and shit….but the INFJ is ALWAYS so fucking worried about the atmosphere around them…understanding whats happening, pinturing ways to connect, but unable to act.
We INFJ have our analyctical/thinking side and stuff but we are as “soft” as the INFP inside. And even more quirky! At least they have their Fi to stay true and in their own heads..
I KNOW IM JUST WHINING but i think the genuine INFJ ends up as the biggest fool in this world of ESTPs, cause we don’t even know who we are mannn
I would really like to find more INFPs around and treat them like they deserve. Ok, we are different, i get it, but we are treated the same way by people, cause thhey don’t have a clue about our differences.
I just wrote a stupid text, i don’t care, i dont speak english, this site is so interesting, full of fucked up people Im sure
Hmm… about the INFP’s tendency to be an emotional dumping ground, I’d say a big part of it is also neediness on the part of INFP – to be validated as a good and moral being by being the comforter for others.
Source: I’m not an INFP myself (INFJ), but I follow a cute INFP girl’s blog and noticed this pattern. And also I have an INFP father and friend. Yeah, sample size n=3, but whatever.
Yes, you do 🙂
And this –> “This doesn’t mean that they take in every stray cat and dog lying in the street. INFP has a natural discrimination and filtering system to keep them away from true dire straits type of people.” Aha, this explains SO much about my life! I have ALWAYS found myself asking why my friends tolerate the kind of people that they do. The people in question aren’t “bad” people, but they are just not “good” to me. And there is literally nothing that can make me open myself up to these people in any way.
So then, wouldn’t extraverted intuition also expose INFPs to more risk, by lowering that natural filter?
I feel like I have been using Ne lately when I see other people as human beings rather than tuning them out the way I normally do. I basically just act like myself around them, self-disclose a leeeetle more than I usually would and treat them in a similar manner as friends who I do connect with via Fi. I’ve actually been kind of shocked at how quickly people can bond to me when I do this, and start sharing parts of themselves that they usually keep away from public view. However, if they are not someone who I have a natural rapport to start with, I tend to unconsciously withdraw just as quickly. I guess that Fi kicks in as a protective measure?
Not sure if that makes any sense….Not that I don’t think INFPs shouldn’t develop Ne. But my experience makes me fear, that wouldn’t developing it also come with the potential to attract more unsavory characters into our lives than we’re used to?
Not really, Ne has a way of keeping bad people away. It would actually make an INFP less likely to attract negative types. An INFP is more likely to attract unsavory types to them when they are in their introverted and reactive mode. Why? Because they are expecting it. They are wary. You get what you expect. But, when Ne auxiliary is activated the wariness changes into merriness and you’re more likely to attract Santa rather than Satan 🙂
Is there some way I can donate to you anonymously?
I have looked into this before but I don’t remember there being any options that sounded viable to me.
If you’re afraid of me coming to get you or something, don’t worry, I will 🙂
What about Patreon? I use it to give small monthly donations to an artist or two I follow. (Not actually sure that it’s anonymous from their end! I may be making assumptions.)
Yes, Patreon has the option of patron anonymity. I am considering setting up a Patreon account so that all you lovely people can support my beautiful ass for all the gorgeous articles I put out for your personal viewing pleasure.
Until then, Paypal is my friend and I would be overjoyed with ebullience if you would find it in your heart to make a one-time or recurring monthly donation in support of this site. After all, sites like this don’t come along everyday and if you want them to thrive and flourish, then, it is up to you to feed the beast.
Know what I mean jellybean?
I have to say that I know some cases where the INFP goes under an extreme inferior Te manifestation, grip. In these situations, they are not just “stubborn motherfuckers”, they are motherfuckers. They become ultra agressive, vocally and even physically, and also completely non-logical. I guess that this dark, inferior manifestation of Te is non-logical, is just a necessity of being in control of the situation, prove that the other is wrong, and win the fight by whichever means are available. It’s something very dark. It’s the opposite of what the “healthy” INFP.
But this is just a rant about what I believe is this inferior Te grip. Other than this, I deeply respect INFPs because of the silent and infinite love they possess.
Hi Blake,
you talk about enneatype 3 and ESTPs. Enneatype 3 is obsess with efficiency, doesn’t that sound more like Te? What do you think about ESTPs being enneatype 7? To me enneatype 7 sounds more like Se.
What do you think about the idea of matching the enneagram types with the cognitive functions? One of the problems I can see is that there are 9 enneatypes and 8 cognitive functions.
Do you think this matching makes sense?
1 – Ni
2 – Fe
3 – Te
4 – Fi
5 – Ti
6 – Ne
7 – Se
8 – ??
9 – Si
After talking to a friend (yes I am an INFJ and I followed your advice about flow and Fe) this is my revised matching:
1 -> Ni
2 -> Fe
3 -> Te
4 -> Fi
5 -> Ti
6 -> Anxiety in all of us, everybody can get into it at some point in their lives due to too many responsibilities, not having enough fun, etc… Kind of like chronic stress/anxiety
7 -> Ne
8 -> Se, the socionics defition of Se matches type 8 extremely well
9 -> Si
OK, since you followed my advice I guess I should find it in my heart to help you out here 🙂
There is actually a book that attempts this very thing of correlating the cognitive functions (hate that phrase) to the enneagram points. It is the Riso and Hudson book on the enneagram. As far as I’m concerned, the cognitive functions do not match neatly with the enneagram numbers. However, the basic qualities of heat, dryness, moisture, and cold and their combinations into the four humours do. This would yield 8 possible combinations as well. This is all Greek by the way. I think it is Galen. Anyway, the four qualities are basically the four elements. When two of these qualities or elements predominate instead of one, you get what is known as one of the four humors; sanguine (hot and moist), choleric (hot and dry), melancholic (cold and dry), and phlegmatic (moist and cold). There is also the possibility of a perfectly balanced humour in which none of the qualities are more predominant than the other three. This is what Galen called the “balanced or perfect type” or something like that.
So, that gives 9 possibilities and there are 9 primary numbers. Hey, how convenient!
Another thing I do is switch some of the positions of the enneagram numbers to better accord with the traditional numerological implications of those numbers.
4 and 1 would switch as would 5 and 7. That pretty much puts the enneagram points in an accord with the numerological attributions. Enneagram 4 is generally described as the individualist, the creator (at it’s highest level), the search for self and identity. So, that is totally a quality of the number 1 in numerology. And I believe numerology is correct in its number correspondences to qualities.
So, to me, basically what enneagram is describing is temperamental types that accord with numerological qualities. The basic descriptions of enneagram have some truth in them, I just feel that attributions to actual numbers is mussed up in the above mentioned cases. And in the case of enneatype 6, I have my doubts about that enneagram point. It seems like a catchall number to me in which no basic quality predominates. I think its description of an anxious and phobic (or counterphobic) type may be erroneous. 6 in numerology is a rather balanced number and even in modern mathematics, 6 is considered the most perfect number. So, I don’t know why the temperament that accords with this number would be phobic and anxious. Quite the contrary actually. I think phobia and anxiety would fit in better with the attributes of number 7, which would be point 5 on the enneagram.
And the number two/enneapoint 2 seems to be misdescribed in both numerology and enneagram. It has the weak interpretation of “the helper”. However, two is the primary number of duality/division/mentation if you ask me. It is the primary number of intellect. So, I can’t abide its rather limited interpretation as the helpless codependent. There is something to this, but, there is also this other quality as well.
So, with those caveats in mind I will give you my attributions of what I think the 9 enneatypes as they are currently formulated are:
1 ->Si. I don’t know where in the fuck you would see Ni at all. This is a pragmatic and salt of the earth type.
2 ->Yeah, sort of Fe I suppose, but also sort of like an airy Fe, which is to say there is something Libran there in the Venusian sense. Libra is a sign of mediation and compromise.
3 ->Fe, Te, extraverted judgment mixed with some of the narcissistic qualities of Venus and Jupiter, which is to say benefic energies that add a sort of charm and protection to this enneapoint.
4 ->If anything this would be the number of Ni. It’s descriptions match pretty well with what Ni is all about; identity, search for self, creative power, the feeling that something is missing or flawed in the self or the world etc.
5 ->Yes, the Ti enneapoint.
6 ->All qualities in some way. Catchall number. Mishmash. Kinda of Virgoan actually in its leveling out quality. A sort of neutrality.
7 ->Se, Ne. Basically, the point of extraverted perception.
8 ->Te/Fe dominant with Ni/Se auxiliary/tertiary axis. So, primary enneapoint of ENTJ and ENFJ.
9 ->Si, Fi. Primary enneapoint of ISFJ, INFP, and some ISFPs.
That’s the best I can make of the enneagram and how it corresponds to cognitive functions in its current configuration.
I actually disagree in a lot of what you said.
4 -> The gift of this enneatype is the ability to create beauty. I have seen INFPs and ISFPs create the most beautiful things without any effort whatsoever. An INFJ would have to work hard at technique and make an effort to connect with their Fi. Actually, enneatype 1 goes into enneatype 4 when under stress. What that means is that when type 1s get too stressed – too much repressed anger – as a form of escapism they go to 4. They start fantasising about this rescuer that will solve all their problems – which basically are repressed anger, not dealing with problems here and there. Pure resentment because you repress your anger at someone, you didn’t act on your anger and voila you are left with all this resentment towards someone else.
The passion of the 4 is envy. Making negative comparisons. Ask about envy to an INFP, ISFP, ENFP and ESFP. They have loads of it.
1 -> The gift of the 1 is wisdom. Just knowing things, does that ring a bell? It kind of sounds like Ni. Enneatype 1 is a completely idealistic type, it is all about bloody perfection. Nothing fits your image idea of how things are suppose to be. So type 1s do loads of Value-judging, condemning yourself and others. You can be on the good side or the bad side, but there is no one in the middle. But of course it is all hidden, although it comes out with close ones a little bit.
2 -> It might be a shock to hear the ulterior motives of Fe holders, but it is true. Being nice and helpful so people will like you. But you have to have Fe to know these things of course.
8 -> This fits exactly with the socionics description of Se. It seems like MBTI didn’t quite capture what Se is all about. And what do ENTJs and ENFJs have in common? Se in third position. I have found that most people show their third function characteristics shamelessly and because it is not well develop they are then at a not very healthy level on that one.
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/information_elements/Se
9 -> This is all about being numb to anger. Like reality cannot get to you. Specifically resisting being affected by your experiences. Like you want to create all these really nice memories that you can feast on later. Is it starting to sound like Si ulterior motives?
3 -> This is all about ignoring your feelings and with an addiction to efficiency. To me that sounds like Te.
But we are all a mixture of these enneatypes, but mainly the ones contained in your first three functions.
“4 -> The gift of this enneatype is the ability to create beauty.”
That’s highly debatable. I could say the gift of this enneatype is the ability to know who they are and express that identity via works of art, psychology, and humanism in general. Or, as Riso and Hudson say, to find out who they are by expressing themselves (Fe) through works of art (for example).
“I have seen INFPs and ISFPs create the most beautiful things without any effort whatsoever. An INFJ would have to work hard at technique and make an effort to connect with their Fi.”
First of all, if we are talking technique, INFPs have less technical ability than INFJs. Secondly, an INFJ often gets by with very little technique, but, they make up for it in the ability to create art that is very moving and speaks to the human condition and all that. And guess what, Fi does have a hand to play in that, which INFJs DO NOT have to make an effort to connect with because they have it as an id function (which I talk about in my Fi in INFJs article). INFJs, on top of that, have facility with Fe as well and this is why they are the type that most deserves to be called “the artist type” more than an INFP or an ISFP. ISFP is more of an artisan, which involves a more small-scale beauty.
Another point of contention is the prevailing description of Fe, which is causing us to have a miscommunication. I don’t believe that Fi is responsible for artistic beauty and Fe is responsible for a person being a humdrum wet nurse. Fe is actually the function of artistic effects par excellence. Since art deals very much with surface qualities, as far as those surfaces are brought to artistic perfection and harmonious balance, Fe is responsible, not Fi.
“Actually, enneatype 1 goes into enneatype 4 when under stress. What that means is that when type 1s get too stressed – too much repressed anger – as a form of escapism they go to 4. They start fantasising about this rescuer that will solve all their problems – which basically are repressed anger, not dealing with problems here and there. Pure resentment because you repress your anger at someone, you didn’t act on your anger and voila you are left with all this resentment towards someone else.
The passion of the 4 is envy. Making negative comparisons. Ask about envy to an INFP, ISFP, ENFP and ESFP. They have loads of it.”
I think you are right here if you are implying that there is some Fi in enneatype 4. I simply stated Ni as the correspondence, but, then was thinking after I posted that there is also a good deal of Fi too. The envy. Right. So, to expand it a bit, I would say type 4 is a mix of Ni and Fi, and maybe just feeling in general. Ni with feeling function. Type 4 belongs most to the INFJ type in my experience. All those other types you listed can fall at other enneagram points, but not INFJ, with perhaps a few exceptions. I emphatically do not recognize ESFP falling at this point ever. Nor INFPs or really ENFPs either. ISFP maybe. Nah. Type 4 descriptions basically are describing the INFJ type. More or less. And by the way, INFJs can have extreme envy. A black envy. And so can ISFJ. Remember Salieri in the movie Amadeus. That’s Fi id. INFJ and ISFJ have the most extreme manifestations of Fi.
But, it is obvious we are seeing different things. For example, we probaly wouldn’t agree on who is an INFJ or ISFP or some other type because we are seeing Fi and Fe differently, for starters. We are also seeing Ni differently as well as is clear from your following commentary.
“1 -> The gift of the 1 is wisdom. Just knowing things, does that ring a bell? It kind of sounds like Ni.”
No, it kind of sounds like Si. Si is wisdom too. It is the wisdom of experience. And that is exactly how type 1 wisdom is described. The wisdom that comes with having actual experience of the world and people. Ni can have zero experience and still know somehow. Well, that’s intuition for you. This has zero to do with type 1 on enneagram.
“Enneatype 1 is a completely idealistic type”
No, it isn’t. It is a type whose idealism is very much tempered by the wisdom of experience not some far-flung and cosmic-type reality. It is not complete or absolute in the sense of Ni heavenly perfection.
“it is all about bloody perfection. Nothing fits your image idea of how things are suppose to be.”
Yes, type 1 seems to be described as a sort of perfection that arises from wanting to perfect earthly type things such as moral norms or building a better barn or institution of some sort. Emphatically not Ni’s purview.
“2 -> It might be a shock to hear the ulterior motives of Fe holders, but it is true. Being nice and helpful so people will like you. But you have to have Fe to know these things of course.”
It’s not a shock. I have written about this aspect of INFJs and ISFJs throughout this site. In fact, in the most popular article on this site, INFJ: Least Likely to be Who You Think They Are, I am very much talking about how INFJs use Fe as a chameleon function to throw people off their deep Fi id motives and impulses. Fe is especially used in this way as an auxiliary function.
I also disagree with the across-the-board definition of Fe as lacking in genuiness and being utterly conniving. While it is true introvert dominants may see and use it this way, I think the function is genuine and true as far as the territory it covers. We aren’t asking Fe to be Fi. And I often think that Fe can be very true in the moment, which is pretty much where it has its operation, in the current moment, that is, if you are just looking at this function by itself and not with Si, Ni, or Fi combined with it in some way. It’s extraversion. It just is what it appears to be. Unless it is being used as a tool by introverts. There is nothing behind Fe in and of itself. So, no ulterior motives.
“8 -> This fits exactly with the socionics description of Se. It seems like MBTI didn’t quite capture what Se is all about. And what do ENTJs and ENFJs have in common? Se in third position. I have found that most people show their third function characteristics shamelessly and because it is not well develop they are then at a not very healthy level on that one.
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/information_elements/Se”
Yes, there seems to be some Se in type 8. Also, extraverted judgment as a dominant function. And Ni as an auxiliary. That’s what I see.
“9 -> This is all about being numb to anger. Like reality cannot get to you. Specifically resisting being affected by your experiences. Like you want to create all these really nice memories that you can feast on later. Is it starting to sound like Si ulterior motives?”
Yes, Si. Uh-huh. And Fi. And maybe Fe. Like I said, I don’t think there are neat one to one correlations of each one of the cognitive functions to an enneatype. So, I see those 2 or 3 cognitive functions in there. But, basically I agree with you – Si.
“3 -> This is all about ignoring your feelings and with an addiction to efficiency. To me that sounds like Te.”
Um, I don’t know that this is all type 3 is about, but, sure I can see your point. I can see Te in there, but, not exclusively. Thus, no one to one perfect correlation.
“But we are all a mixture of these enneatypes, but mainly the ones contained in your first three functions.”
Yeah, due to the id function thing that I was talking about, I see a person’s temperament as mainly a mixture of the first four functions in this order strengthwise: dominant (ego-orienting function), id function (function that the ego differentiates off of. See Freud for explanation of id), auxiliary (persona, personality. See Jung for definition of persona), and tertiary (finishing function. what the type moves towards as an end. Perfecting function. Also, has implications for how one thinks and communicates).
So, that’s how I see the shit. And it’s cool that we disagree. I’m OK with that. I just wanted to respond to you and maybe get into some of the reasons for our differences.
I agree with you on the Fi – Fe dichotomy on INFJs an ISFJs. What I have found with Fi dominants is that they have no interest whatsoever in creating art. From my point of view I think they will rule the arts but they are just not interested. Or maybe they need something to bring it out? Like Fe? I wonder what would happen if an Fi dominant got a bit of a Fe push…
On INFJs and ISFJs you have both, Fi and Fe, so what do you get? Artists, or at least a huge interest in art.
I know you say that Ni is all about being an artist but I don’t see it. I think Ni is more serious but this Fi-Fe dichotomy provides the driver for Ni, the personality for Ni. I mean, INTJs are not artist? No interest whatsoever, no, all about this Ti-Te dichotomy, understanding everything and working hard, no time for feelings!
I think all the introverted functions need the extroverted functions to be able to come out. Like Ni/Ne. The thing that has impacted my life the most ever is having a really close ENTP friend. We could talk about things for hours and that has brought my Ni out. I think Ni is a lot more serious and it needs the playful side of Ne to come out, otherwise is too scary, like somebody could judge what you are saying and you don’t want that, you don’t want to be wrong, what if you are? Something terrible will happen!!
Regarding Fe, I agree with you on its strengths. The gift is the ability to make people feel comfortable, being warm and helpful. But behind that there is a problem with self-esteem, like you need to be liked by people to feel good about yourself, and being on your own is like the worst thing that can happen. I like the strengths of Fe, I wouldn’t change them for the world but I don’t want to do things expecting something in return, even if that is only friendship. What I have realized by reading the eneatype is that friendship comes naturally when people have an honest relationship, when they tell each other what they think. Not when they just listen and give advice. No, when you share a piece of yourself with another human being.
Regarding Fi types it is very interesting to observe children with Fi in dominant or auxiliary position. They still don’t know that envy is bad, really badly regarded by everyone. So they state out loud their envy with absolutely no shame. My ENFP son, 5 years old, constantly makes negative comparisons and expresses his envy. It is incredible to watch. This is a lot harder to observe in my ISFP son, but sometimes it comes out as well. My INFP husband – have known him for 20 years – makes negative comparisons out loud when he is pissed off and I have seen his envy sometimes, believe me, it is there.
I don’t really have a problem with envy, I have only felt envious when I am really stressed and in a bad place.
My real problem I have realized – and this has cost me 2 months of introspection, of peeling my own brain-onion – is value-judging, having no compassion for myself and by extension for anyone else who has done something that I don’t “approve of”.
I don’t know. This is my theory that the functions can be matched to the enneatypes. I kind of know they can be matched but obviously nobody wants to hear that without explaining the whole thing, so I am trying to do that. I mean, I really value your opinion as you seem to know loads of stuff which is not obvious to a lot of people. I think this can help loads of people, because in our minds all our thoughts are mixed together so it is very difficult to tell one bit apart from the other. But I think that knowing your MBTI type can lead you to the enneagram to be able to keep the strengths of your functions and get rid of the bloody weaknesses! It is like somebody is driving the ship but you are not even aware of it. Thanks for reading!
Just one final recommendation for this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Enneagram-Psychological-Spiritual-Personality/dp/0553378201/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442041516&sr=1-1&keywords=the+wisdom+of+the+enneagram
Read it and cry, like I have done, when you read about what drives people ultimately. Even yourself. This is the bit that is not funny at all.
Have you seen the movie “Inside out”? This is how I see the functions, all trying to get their agendas fulfilled. But in reality there is only one captain of the ship. The strongest and weakest. Your bloody first function.
Thank you a lot for such a nice example of an INFP. Molly Ringwald’s character reminds me one of my classmates. They both have their own style, are quiet and irritate so called popular girls. They do not afraid to tell hard truth. I wouldn’t react as them in different situations (as it is shown in the movie or in life in general). And I’m a bit of jealous about this. I can react this way only in extreme situations.
Hi Blake, I think I remember reading something INFP’s mainly fall into the 4 and 5 enneagram categories. I am an INFP but enneagram 3w4 and I honestly feel like this is the biggest curse of my life. I am perpetually conflicted between superficiality and authenticity.
I was wondering if you have ever seen this combination in INFP’s manifested in real life? I have a feeling INFP 3’s like myself are not as easily spotted because we appear very “3”ish – I say this because for 3’s everything we do is striving to present this image of what we think is appealing, otherwise known as: all the shallow things in society ( prestige, social class, beauty, popularity etc…)
Curious to hear your thoughts.
I’m not aware of any INFP falling at type 3. So, either you aren’t a 3, aren’t an INFP, or I’m wrong.
Just to let you know, I don’t place a lot of stock in test results in these matters. I rely on my own perceptions when it comes to typing. And my opinions about functions, positions, full-scale MB types, and enneatypes depart from the norm in many cases.
So, you either agree with me or don’t, but, there is a certain logic and continuity throughout this site about the way I see these things and perhaps how I arrived there.
The only enneatype I see INFPs falling at is type 9. If INFPs perhaps fall at other places on the enneagram I’m either not aware of this segment of INFPs or wouldn’t consider them INFPs at all.
Perhaps the best way to make some headway with this is to give me a list of some famous people that you think are INFPs at enneatype 3. I don’t know…now that I think about it, Molly Ringwald may be an INFP that falls at type 3. I could see that. And she is definitely an INFP in my book.
On the other hand, there are many ENFPs that fall at type 3 and so I think that is sometimes a mistyping thing – a person testing as INFP when they are really ENFP – and being a type 3. I see many ESTPs and some ENTJs and ENFJs falling at type 3 and perhaps some ISFPs as well (not sure about ISFP though).
If you are an INFP at type 3, you are probaly an ENFP, or you are an INFP but not a type 3. And actually much of the challenge of ENFP is this conflict between superficiality and authenticity. ENFPs are the slickest members of the NF class of temperaments. They are the sanguine member of the melancholic class, so yes, it does present this very dichotomy you speak of.
ENFPs come from a background of authenticity and depth but tend to express that background in the exact opposite manner, which means glibly, superficially, with a lot of surface charm etc. There is the concept of “selling out” those high ideals with ENFP. Read what I said about ENFP as a collective type here. ENFPs want to be members of the beautiful people club (type 3 ones) yet they want to do something with substance as well. In other words, they can’t just be ESTPs.
They want to be cool. They want to be hip. They want to be deep.
Anyway, check that out and see what you think. Those are some of my thoughts on the issue.
And try not to be offended by some of the stuff I said about the less-than-genuine nature of ENFP if at all possible. I actually like ENFPs a lot. I just have a way of writing in which everything comes out all fucked up and truthful.
It’s my cross to bear. And yours too now.
I challenge this premise. I don’t think INFPs are taken for granted, as any rule.
I don’t think we are “too nice”. The doormat of MBTI is long known to be the ISFJ. INFPs are usually pretty autonomous people, and that makes it rather easy to tell people to GTFO.
Okay, Mrs. Okay, that is hardly challenging this premise. You are simply making an appeal to authority. You assert that ISFJs are the doormats, not INFPs. First of all you are assuming there is one type that is a “doormat”. Why assume that? ISFJs can definitely be doormats in the sense that they can let their loved ones use them like an appliance. However, ISFJs are often super savvy types that are great at using their seeming compliance with mandates as a ground for underground operations in which they lull and pacify their would-be targets.
If anyone would be a candidate for the most guileless of all types, I would say it would have to be INFPs. Though, I am not denying them their own protection and defenses, and even, their own method of taking advantage of others and getting what they want.
And yes, they can be quite autonomous in their deeper self, but, it doesn’t necessarily make them happy. INFPs are happiest in an environment where everyone is pleased and in a state of harmony of relations between all present parties. And because they care about this so much they can be the most taken advantage of by others that are not vested in this harmony and accord.
INFPs are perhaps the most sensitive to conflict of all types.
I would like to recommend a character for you to check out: Homura from Puella Magi Madoka Magica. I read often in forums that she is a good example of INTJ. However, a few and more thoughtful replies suggested she’s INFP in Te grip, or ITJ shadow. Really interesting her development, if you watch the one episode where they show her past. An airheaded girl who grows to fight for the life of one person who doesn’t reciprocate her deep conviction<– this article really articulates what I have been observing but couldn't find in words.
What do you think of the whole “INFP = creative person” stereotype prevailing on all message boards? Where does it come from?
I personally don’t see why this should be the case with Fi – Ne, it is more like seeking out opportunities to contribute to something you care deeply for, be it in a not necessarily creative occupation, or relationships.
The closest two INFPs that I know cannot really write or creatively express anything, but caring for someone is a really profound talent of theirs.
Speaking of which, as an INFJ I often find myself incapable of fully appreciating it. Getting all the emotional closeness and care AND deep conversations and similar interests and fondness of nature, and having someone relieve you of the burden of handling everyday realities, but finding myself secretly dreaming of some soul-destroying mutual adoration-dependency stuff, or someone whose artistic and philosophical pursuits I would relentlessly admire, well, the whole dynamic you described in your INFJ articles.
But it is ironic because no one seems to be as capable of embracing all the toxic waste of my Fi id and loving me all the more for it as the devoted, gentle INFP.
Being with ENTP was hell in terms of emotional understanding, although I stayed long enough for the perspective of “glimpsing the universe” (and yes they were a physicist).
It is really ironic, either you get the love and infinite acceptance, or the thrill/admiration/goosebumps but without the lasting former.
The only solution I see in this situation is for an INFJ to Fe extensively, for an INFP to Ne extensively, and for them to merge in a sort of “creating something bigger together” stream, which then compensates for the individual fantasy-dissatisfaction cycle.
Sorry for ranting, hope to get your comment, first and foremost, on INFP creativity cliche.
I am an INFP 4. I don’t know whether you read what Blake said below (and I have no intention of going into it in any great depth) but I think their understanding of type 4 and INFP artistic creativity are based on fundamental misunderstandings of the type.
I think these two friends of yours are either atypical of the type or simply don’t put much effort in to their writing. The latter is the more likely. As an INFP I can light my entire mind up with fantasy worlds of all descriptions, I can extend and expand depth as much as I choose, I can make characters real with a single thought. I would compare the whole process to placing a galaxy inside a jar. Over time I have created thousands if not millions of them. The Fi is very good at painting the ideas (the paint being an abstraction in this case) which I really cannot see any INFJ emulating. A strong Ji function makes for an individual with a strong control over their inner mind and with that control they express their master craftsmanship over their respective domain.
However I don’t tend to write my stories down or flesh out the worlds because there is no way the 2D medium (whether art or writing) can ever hope to capture the vast entity I have created. My only motivation for ever doing so lies in my sp/sx enneagram stacking where I hope I can get it published and sell it for enough money to secure a financial independence for the future. If such a thing did not exist I would not do so at all. There would be little need for said creative expression. The audience doesn’t matter unless they are fulfilling some sort of inner need.
The above is the creative essence of the type. I would suggest asking your friends next time about how much of their inner lives and world are not expressed. It would likely be far more than even they would tell you.
Thank you for your opinion!
I would still love to hear from Blake though, harboring the hope that, as uninterested as he might possibly be about my comment, he would kindly spare two words to explain how the creative stereotypes of INFP relate to with his more mundane vision of the latter.
Just like his darker, more real view of INFJs is different from the majority of info out there, the perception of INFPs as beings who fit quite well into the daily grind is unusual, but overlaps with my intuitive perception of them. So I got this itch to learn more about this apparent contradiction…
In my opinion, the prevailing INFP stereotype is in many ways misleading. In reality, people that I would consider INFPs, which means people that have an Fi dominance in the Pisces vein (versus Fi in the Scorpio vein. INFJs have more the latter typically as an id function) and an Ne auxiliary, Si tertiary, and Ni id of the Leo vein (akin to a Leo Moon in astrology and not the blazing and overt nature of the Leo Sun)…well, let’s just say that INFPs are alternatively nicer and more fantastic than INFJs. More hum-drum and more absolute in their imaginal faculties as I think Turnip is alluding to.
The thing about many INFPs is that you wouldn’t necessarily know about these more fantastic worlds of theirs without knowing them intimately. They are a conservative type too. They don’t go around cavalierly showing off their flights of fancy. INFPs are generally always aware of material exigencies, even if they complain about the ways of the Western world, they are not going to be the type of romantic dreamer that is willing to let their vision of art take precedence above all else. They have a pragmatism that saves them from these excesses. As Turnip said, s/he wants to get paid for it or else they wouldn’t do it at all. INFPs are like that. They are not going to ignore the practicalities and the preservations in their visions.
So, Si.
INFJs creative life is generally not as fantastic in nature. Their creative visions generally revolve around themes of hard reality. INFJs are fascinated with REALITY.
INFPs are not fascinated with REALITY, which means the way things really are, without the romantic overlays.
However, ironically, INFPs are more able to participate in the work-a-day world. They have a gift of detachment (or can) from whatever they are out there doing for money. They are more able to do things for money than an INFJ. As long as they have their respite to come back to at the end of the day. In that respite they are likely to dream liberally. Go off to magical worlds which are far removed from reality. And they may have NO NEED AT ALL to share any of this with anyone, even their beloved, if they have such, who may be dwelling there with them.
This is completely different for an INFJ who NEEDS to make whatever their vision is into a real world proposition. Which is why many INFJs MUST BE artists in one form or another.
So, INFPs are not really the artist type in the sense that artists must have that absolute desire to express a vision. And the burning drive that is often behind the drive to be an artist. At least in the Romantic sense of the artist.
For an INFJ, their art is a way for them to participate in the world. As a way to comment on and reflect reality. Art mirrors life.
An INFP doesn’t have this dilemma for the most part. This is not to say that there are no INFP artists. Any individual of any type may be an artist and may have the burning drive to be such, BUT, I’m speaking for the general type and not any given instance of the type.
I think Turnip is right when they allude to an INFP being able to create whole fantasy worlds that have their own laws and characters. That is a gift of Ne.
An INFJ would write something more like Crime and Punishment and an INFP would write something more like Harry Potter. They are both creative.
Yes, INFJs tend to create stuff that reflects more of the darkness of human nature as it exists in very real situations. Example: Raskolnikov, the main protagonist from Crime and Punishment, pondering whether he is capable of murder. His whole existence and ability to move forward seems to hinge on this question.
The INFP conception of darkness tends to have that fairytale quality to it. They talk more about love and light prevailing. The good prevails.
I think rarely will an INFP leave you in a moral ambiguity in one of their creations, to question the assumptions of good and evil.
INFJs tend to be on the dark side in their creative endeavors. I think INFJs are fascinated with darkness and evil.
Not all, mind you, but as a general tendency. For example, I think Ralph Waldo Emerson was an INFJ, and he wasn’t “dark”. However, his astrology tends to the lighter side of things: Gemini Sun, Leo Moon, Libra Rising, Venus in Aries, Mercury in Gemini. All light placements. But, the INFJ sense of reality is still there in his writing. That Se reality and fascination with the true nature of the world.
INFPs have this via Si. They love to revel in the textures, sights, sounds, smells of the natural world. But, there is nothing critical in it. They tend to be of liberal temperament and enjoy the simple joys of nature. I’m sure many naturalists are INFP temperaments. People that believe ardently in the protection of natural spaces and devote a great deal of their life to taking preservative action. John Muir?
INFJs are rather obsessed with seeing if they can get thrown out a window and handle it.
Then they will run home and write about all the facets of that singular situation.
They want someone to punch them in the face so they can write a novel about it 🙂
Thank you very much for your reply! 🙂
This explains a lot. The bit about Si relating to the quiet appreciation of nature (I suppose little everyday sensations and small-scale beauty too?) was very fascinating. I get the impression also that they have a milder relationship with sensation than INFJ in a sense that, if they can enjoy it, that’s amazing, but if not, they won’t have this excruating longing for it. No greedy component there, and silent resilience when their sensory enjoyment is limited. Be it physical touch, nature or food, INFJs seem more “lusty” towards these things and thus prone to addictions more (nature NOW or I’ll suffocate etc.) INFJ with bulimia speaking. O that love-hate relationship with Se.
Would you say that if an INFP finds a reflection of their core values in the work that is considered usually mundane, that becomes a form of creativity for them?
The respite you are talking about can be that mild Si, or letting Ne roam around via reading too , right?
The INFPs that I know (well no other type seems to fit them, and they fit into your description well) have a tremendous appreciation for reading, but have difficulty with writing. My SO says he overthinks every word and gets trapped in logic which leads him in the wrong direction. Would an INFP in a left-brained job be more prone to inferior Te traps in such a way?
Sorry for the many questions. I appreciate that you might not be able to answer any of those:)
Blake,
I can’t copy and paste, but am relieved to meet someone that understands that “just stand up for yourself and be a bitch!”doesn’t work.
I’m not an Infp, but people (particularly esxx’s) telling me to be more ruthless this doesn’t work with my personality. Even if I try to be this aggressive “I am going to kick your ass” persona, it’s going to look fake and awkward. How long can I put on a mask?
Second, I agree with you on how some of the nicest people can fight back the dirtiest, if provoked. This is another reason why I hold my tongue and ignore mean people. It’s not that I can’t come up with a retort. It’s just that I know that the other person is going to be very hurt knowing that I can hit their weak points.
Third, standing up for yourself can invite negative backlash. I have seen people desperately try to keep you as as a doormat, or they will launch smear campaigns (like borderlines).
If you’re someone you like to be, someone you can be proud of, then I think that is enough. Few manage but if you can take what you are and turn it into what you’d rather be, isn’t that something?
I like the trees and the water and that keep me sane. Its quite something to cherish the world and forget about all this personality stuff. If you’re busy enjoying it, what is there to theorize about? What-who to change to make things better? You dont need to have the attention of people.
I feel Molly Ringwald could also be an ISFP though. She’s not privileged like the classic INFP and she’s much more assertive and works hard to get what she wants. She reminds me of my ISFP friend except with less of a stoner vibe.
INFPs have a vision of what they want and will work tenaciously to bring it about. This vision often has to do with how one may gain entrance to that “fairy tale” life. Actually, within the movie Pretty in Pink, there is an interesting juxtaposition between the INFP and ISFP mentality. Molly Ringwald’s character in that movie has a father that embodies the ISFP myth very well. He is a blue collar working man that has been in the doldrums since his wife (Molly’s mother) has left both of them. He is a rather simple and uncomplicated character, though obviously quite deep-feeling and sincere. I think their relationship is quite interesting as an instance of the dynamic of INFP/ISFP relating. Molly’s character is always trying to change things up around the house and act as a sort of spark to get him motivated to get back to work.
I think an ISFP is more dependent on circumstances for how their lives turn out. INFPs seem to have the gift of intuition to imagine how their lives could be and attempting to mold their lives to that ideal they have. Molly Ringwald’s character very much does just this very thing in her iconic performance in Pretty in Pink.
Ducky is another character from that movie who is idly floating around. Intuitives are much less conditioned by their circumstances, though, of all the intuitives, this is least true of INFP because of their dominant Fi. Fi is the most receptive to influences of all the functions. But, in combination with intuition there is a driving vision or ideal that allows them the ability to imagine a different future than their inherited one and move slowly and tenaciously toward it. INFPs actually have very strong, yet subtle wills. It may not appear they are moving anywhere because their wills are not flashy or overt. But, they get a tight grip on what they want and they do not let go.
INFPs do not have that true drift that an ISFP is susceptible to if outer circumstances are unfavorable. However, ISFPs are also tougher and can take a lot more hard knocks than an INFP.
ISFPs also tend to need a lot of experience to formulate a coherent vision of life. INFPs, not so.
Ok I see what you mean. I think with the INFP’s, they have that ability to work for their vision but it can often take them a long time to work out exactly what the vision is, so they can potentially spend a long time in a Fi-Si loop or just trying out different things, making it seem like they have no direction.
Also I think they can be easily influenced making them lose direction further, or they get caught up in a relationship or with wanting to be liked. Whereas ISFP’s can seem pretty consistent workers and always take action, but they ultimately don’t always have that vision.
I still find it hard to tell the difference between ISFP’s and INFP’s sometimes though, I think generally INFP’s seem softer and a bit more open and sweet and weird, ISFP’s just seem like they give zero fucks. Also, maybe coincidentally, but the ones I know do so many drugs, somehow they seem to be one of the types that can handle lots of recreational drugs while still being a top student or worker, and not getting mentally ill, it amazes me.
It depends though. My father I’m sure is an INFP, however he comes off as very INTJ-ish in his behaviour sometimes. Not helped by the fact that he is an Aquarius with an Aries moon, which seems to me like quite an INTJ combination although I don’t know too much about it. But I’m sure essentially, when it comes to the functions, and the way he is at work, he is an INFP, just heavy on the Ni id.
“I allude to the INTJ id in this article when I mention “an indignance that backfires”, the INFP having an innate filtering system that keeps undesirables away from them, and a certain feeling of good breeding and a sort of upper-class and educated (sometimes snobby) comportment to them.”
Fascinating…. am always trying to understand what you call the id. I hear people tell me I think I am a princess. It fascinates me as I can’t quite own that fully. I just don’t get where it comes from. My mother was no princess at all. There is nothing princessy about her, just all hard hard work. We grew up really sheltered though. No playdates that sort of thing. My dad is very intellectual. My mum too. They just spend all their time on their careers. I don’t get where this princess entity comes from…. but people see it!
Anyhow this indignance is part of why infps are tough.
This article is very forgiving to infps and forgiveness feels damm good. I kept thinking that Blake is just trying to be nice.
I don’t think people treat infps any differently than they treat others for instance. The difference is that infps get hurt in situations that others don’t get hurt. The older I get the more it shocks me that I get hurt and people are stunned that something hurt me. It truly appears infps are abnormal in that sense.
But! Where I realize that as an infp I may actually be full of crap, is that I am not sure that I myself treat people better than others do. For example, I read an article once that explained the idea that people prefer to be around people that are predictable. They feel treated better that way. Well I am certain no one feels that way around me when I get hurt or possibly ever.
I can’t tell you how often people around me have been completely surprised that something hurt me. Their faces show as much surprise as annoyance. I always feel terrible like I am so inappropriate when I see that people rarely see the same situation the same way as me.
It is kind of strange, because people kind of don’t see me, but then when I am hurt they see me, the worst of me. It tends to be what sticks with people. These bizarre eruptions. So I agree with the invisibility part of this article and it makes me cry of relief that you somehow get it Blake. Anyhow the way you wrote the article I feel inherently forgiven for all the other infp crap aspects.
Thinking a lot about infjs due to the Annie Clark article, made me realize that I have a certain envy infjs that their feelings are not their orientation. I tire myself with trying to be unemotional. I wish I could “elect” feelings. I mean… I know infjs have strong Fi id stuff. But somehow that gives them a free pass in many ways actually because they can Fe it and Fe is a very strong function in terms of negotiating what it wants. I feel being an Fi dominant means to be chained down by an inescapable emotional thinking without a skill set for letting people understand. I realize there is a difference between feelings English and mbti sense, but there is also overlap. But what is also inescapable is the actual reality. You just hit a wall and realize you are in the wrong all the time in some objective sense other people seem to be on to. To be wrong about you try to do best is so frustrating.
Okay. So I had an incident where maybe I got taken granted of or at least unfairly treated. Doesn’t actually matter….one person reacts, another shrugs it off….literally I have seen my colleagues in the same situation laugh it off….
Anywho…I went through that while at the same time talking to myself “hey true to type”. And hey “sob sob sob” true to type you let it go through you. Then move on. It’s like after going through enough life, you get that personality traits just chose you as a vehicle.
And well it’s funny because it could all be an illusion these types. Lol.
O My God!!! You have just solved a puzzle that I have been working on for years. My husband is an INFP. I feel like I should apologize to you. The majority of the time I write on here I’m going through an existential crisis. I’m very sorry for using stellar maze as my own personal offload. But you have just helped me more than I can express. I have very strong Fe and I literally will talk walk and be another…without realizing. As I read through the INFP articles, they felt like these wet heavy clothes that I can’t escape from. It’s a reality that I’m still working diligently on resolving. ISFJ/ESFJ for him always had something not quite right about it. Thank you so, so much for your patience. Identity crisis are confusing and I don’t know what’s what. Again I’m sorry and thank you. And yes I do know I sound crazy. I think if i were an actress, I’d be the one who gets lost in their character and live as that character the entire time. This helps me understand him too. He has sooo much potential but I think I get that he’s not suppose to be that ambitious business owner that builds an empire. LOL! I’m suppose to do that. Thank god. I don’t want to be a princess.