O yes, Obama is a tricky cat to type. But, luckily due to my vast experience in matters of typing I know how to avoid the serious delays that can be caused by over-analysis of these things.
First of all, what I know is this. If someone is difficult to type, they are probably an ISFJ or INFJ. How you like those apples?
Reason = extraverted feeling at the auxiliary function. Only two types have this, ISFJ and INFJ. Got it?
So, what is the deal with extraverted feeling at the auxiliary? The deal is that it gives both INFJ and ISFJ the ability to be chameleons. This has been well-noted in the INFJ type but overlooked in the ISFJ type. However, the reason that INFJs make such good chameleons is because of extraverted feeling. Extraverted feeling is the leading aspect of INFJ because the auxiliary function is the “frontline function” for all types. The dominant function is the “commanding function” for all types. So, what this means is that whatever function you see the most of in a person is generally their auxiliary. You don’t put the commander on the frontlines. It is just that simple.
Now, in regards to Obama, I have seen his Myers-Briggs type listed as INFJ, ENTP, ENFJ, INTP and even some others. But, the ones I just mentioned seem to be the most prominent. These are all wrong. But, you will notice that all those types prefer extraverted feeling over introverted feeling per their function stack hierarchies. So, that much is correct.
Back to Obama. OK, so the first thing that is noticeable about Obama is that he is a smooth speaker. The second thing that is noticeable about him upon listening to him for any length of time (say 5 minutes) is that he isn’t saying much of anything that can be latched onto as a point of definite resolve. Yes, he said he was going to end the wars in the Middle East and the illegal spying on Americans via the Patriot Act, but I am talking in the sense that when you are listening to somebody and they don’t really feel like they are talking about anything.
No, with Obama it is more a matter of how he is talking rather than what he is talking about. To be honest, I don’t really know what Obama is talking about and I really feel like I should for all the meaning that has been attached to the “wonderful things” that he said throughout his initial campaign up unto now. The basic truth with Obama is that it is hard to know what he really stands for. Sure, he has his smooth-sounding rhetoric that seems designed not to offend. Yet, what’s he talking about.
Herein lies the problem. I usually know what people are talking about. Even if they are expressing themselves poorly, I still know what they are driving at in most cases. I feel a certain thing that they stand for. With Obama I don’t feel that.
Possible reason = he doesn’t stand for anything.
Now, don’t get all in a ruckus if you like Obama. I assure you I am not the only one that holds this opinion of the man and it isn’t even a condemnation of him necessarily, more just an attempt to find out what kind of a person he is or isn’t.
So, in line with what I was just saying about my ability to usually be able to detect what a person is driving at, and my lack of ability to do so in the case of Obama, I must necessarily conclude that Obama is an ISFJ.
How did I arrive at this?
Well, ISFJ is one of the two types that uses the extraverted feeling auxiliary I mentioned above. Since chameleons do their best to blend in with their environments so as not to be detected by predators (or electorates) and since it is hard for me to detect what Obama is talking about when he speaks, I must necessarily conclude this way. Also, in evidence is the vast amount of all-over-the-place typings I have seen for him on the internet. This implicates extraverted feeling as an auxiliary function.
Yes, but couldn’t he be an INFJ by this logic?
No, he couldn’t once we recognize that INFJs always take a definite stand even if they do everything in their considerable power to cover their tracks on what they stand for. That is the difference. With Obama, I sense that he is trying to conceal that he doesn’t stand for anything at all. That smacks of introverted sensation as a dominant function. What does introverted sensation stand for? Comfort, ease, pleasantness, materiality, status quo, and in short, nothing radical or anything that is bound to upset one’s digestion.
You want an example of an INFJ president?
Thomas Jefferson was an INFJ. He is the one that authored the Declaration of Independence. Ring a bell?
Yes, that was basically the document that officially told the King of England to go fuck himself and that America would not stand for English encroachment on its affairs. And trust me, that was some serious shit. Jefferson stood for something. And notice the eloquence of the Declaration of Independence. That is Fe in the auxiliary. It is akin to telling someone (King of England) to beautifully and poetically go fuck themselves. That is the INFJ way.
Obama? When has he ever done anything even remotely like this? I have heard him pay lip service to all kinds of beautiful sentiments and actions (refer to his speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, the speech that many say got him elected for his first term in office), but I have never once felt that driving thrust of someone that has a strong vision for anything.
Well, it all makes sense when you realize that ISFJs are the equivalent of a bland and soothing meal that one is usually administered when they are sick or have an upset stomach. That was the state of the nation at the time that Obama was running for president. He came in the wake of the Bush Administration, 9/11, and the war on terrorism. The American public was scared to death of what was happening in the country and were seeking a leader that was well-spoken, temperate, and benign.
Obama showed up and was assuring people that we are all in this together and that there is no red or blue America, there is just the United States of America. Obama was calling for a pulling out of the Middle East wars on terrorism. He was seen as the opposite of the gung-ho and macho Bush administration.
But, Obama is really just business as usual. The only thing that really changed was the image and the talk. ISFJs are great talkers. And they have a gift for lulling you into what you really want to hear. They are not going to upset you with any hard truths. They are like chicken soup when you are sick. ISFJs will talk you up, soothe you, and make you feel nurtured and empowered. The visions they have are of places like Disneyland or Hollywood, places of unreality, which is ironic given that they are supposed to be realists. But, realism is more the extraverted sensation function. Hard reality. Believe it or not, introverted intuition has a strong hand to play in this as well. Another irony.
No, Obama has never done or said anything that would lead me to believe that he is anything more than a pleasant-sounding puppet that says what people want to hear.
Is there anything wrong with that?
I don’t know. Depends who you are. Many people just like to be told that things will work out in some way. Maybe, sometimes that is all you need. It really depends on the circumstances. How sick are you? Will soft medicine do? Or is it too late for that?
To these questions I don’t have the answer. But as to the question of Barack Obama’s Myers-Briggs type, it is ISFJ.
And one more thing. Don’t believe me. I am just me.
But, if you could see my pedigree you just might agree.
Blake, you have written at some length about Fe in the auxiliary. I would be curious to read your thoughts on auxiliary Ni – especially as compared to Ni dominant types.
Yes, that would be an interesting topic. I’ll get on it.
Obama adds up to an INTJ by my math. He fits The Architect type perfectly.
-Introverted for sure. You can see the bursts of “over energy” when he speaks. Not the smooth relaxed energy you see from natural extroverts like (gulp) Sarah Palin.
-iNtuitive certainly. As a campaigner, he was able to see the country as social, racial, cultural patterns and can speak to those patterns in an original way (or at least one that fit the times). His speeches set a new standard from political bullshit.
-Have him more on Thinking just by his demeanor. There is no cheery or angry or sad Obama. Not really. There is just Obama. Can’t say that about the Bushes. He’s also not very genuine to people in general. An INFJ may become president, but would never seek reelection after seeing the evil it entails.
-Then I guess I arrive at Judging given his experiences as a child. Absent father. Eccentric mother. At some point he developed a harsh world view and understood that his only way to advance in it would be as a super slick manager. He sees the brutal power systems in the world and acknowledges that relaxing them (handing power over to voters) might mean chaos. Especially after The Bomb.
Obama’s an interesting guy in the sense that he’s completely self made. Not easy to do these days. But yeah, he’s business as usual.
Obama is about as far away from being an INTJ as Friedrich Nietzsche is from being an ISFJ.
You can’t do the math the way you are doing it. If you just run through the four either/or preferences in a type code, you are going to get very inaccurate results. You have to learn to see the types as a whole. I’ll write an article on this in the near future.
And thanks for your comment and attempt at an analysis.
interesting … yeah, I never could believe he’s an ENTP … among the evidence in support of that claim was that he can be extremely unorganized and scattered-minded. but it makes sense, if you really know ISFJs, you see that beneath their composed and well-ordered attire, there’s can be a lot of sloppiness (I’ve known ISFJs with the most disordered, cluttered homes).
anyway, what captured my imagination is this sentence:
“But, realism is more the extraverted sensation function. Hard reality. Believe it or not, introverted intuition has a strong hand to play in this as well. Another irony.”
would you say that Ni-Se is extracting from reality as much possible, while Ne-Si is seeing possibilities beyond reality? … I’m just guessing
“I’ve known ISFJs with the most disordered, cluttered homes”
I know what you mean. Sometimes they have their own organizational method that doesn’t look like your standard organization. Or sometimes other things matter more, like not throwing anything away or keep anything that is beautiful or saving stuff for someone loved etc. To the point of clutter.
I’m going to guess Blake is an ENTJ or perhaps maybe even an INTP with under developed Si and Fe functions.
N types tend to feel superior to S types. Mostly because they don’t have the hightened sensory abilities that S types have. S types can be so overwhelmed by their senses that they hace little time to play in their minds with their imagination.
I’m a total stereotypical INTP, with a biophysics PhD doing research, teaching college courses but love the arts and spend most of my free time practicing yoga moves. I never understood the genius of the S type, until I fell in love with one. He’s and ISTP. He’s a trained fine arts painters, turned peace corp volunteer, turned professor for urban development. And he’s all about real time improvements. About making sure people are safe traveling in cities in the now.
Anyhow, I say all that to say, one can learn more about oneself by looking at how we perceive others than we do about the other person. Most of what you say Blake, sounds more about what you dislike in the world that true detached objective classification of personality traits. There’s a bigger picture here. All of these traits, where evolutionary gifts to help us work as one giant multi-individual organism. We all need a bit of what the other has.
Most of what you say Blake, sounds more about what you dislike in the world that true detached objective classification of personality traits.
What is a “true detached objective classification of personality traits”? And where does it exist? You certainly are not acting as an exemplar of such, which makes you kind of a hypocrite, doesn’t it?
Why are you holding me to a standard that you do not hold yourself to. I will cite examples of some of the comments you left on this article about Obama’s type, his wife’s type, Trump’s type if you need me to read back the transcript.
Also, you have to understand that there is no objectivity in Myers-Briggs. The reason for this is there is no stable definition of what any of the basic elements of this system are. Only interpretations.
I see only interpretations in your assertions about famous people’s types. There is no absolute certain objectivity there. For example, you said that Michelle Obama is harder to type than Obama because she is more guarded. From this logic, you arrived at ISTP for her. For Trump, you say you don’t think he cares about saving the world because he thinks that Earth will eventually get swallowed up by the Sun. That’s an example of an interpretation of a person’s personality and character. Can we all agree that Trump doesn’t want to save the world because we’re all headed for destruction in the end anyway? No, we can’t. Therefore, where is your “true detached objectivity” and why should I have it when you don’t?
I make no claim to absolute objectivity.
There’s a bigger picture here. All of these traits, where evolutionary gifts to help us work as one giant multi-individual organism. We all need a bit of what the other has.
That sounds like a bias of your worldview and personality. I don’t personally disagree with you in that statement, but, what I do disagree with is your tone of condescension and holier-than-thou mentality.
This is the Achilles Heel of the INTP type – arrogance, self-righteousness, and high horse feelings clothed in logic and objectivity. Ni id is responsible.
You do not know better than me. Nothing you have written indicates that. So, just fucking relax and spare me your self-righteousness clothed in some faux objective stance.
Okay, I know it’s kinda random, but I love the part about Jefferson ^_^ lol.
Yes, Jefferson was a poetic badass, so you gotta love that.
ENTPs are too weird and funny – that’s definitely not him unless he is *really* good at hiding it, which ENTPs are not. I still have a hard time seeing how any introvert could handle the presidency for two terms without going completely nuts, especially in the immediacy of this age. Historic presidents yes, I can see that.
Fe in the auxiliary is how an introvert, especially an Si one, can handle the presidency, and especially in this day and age, which is the age of television, mass media, and the like. The prime function of the president (now) is to go out there and be a smooth-talking and non-threatening puppet. And ISFJs are quite good at this.
I think what this argument is missing is the difference between Fe dominant and Fe auxiliary. I still favor ENFJ for Obama.
There are plenty of people who belive Obama stands for something. I’m not referring to his supporters, of course, but moreso his detractors. The number of people who believe he stands for everything that is wrong with the world means that he is projecting something very clearly that people are responding to on a visceral level. If his goal was to not say anything that anyone could attach meaning to, he certainly failed. The President has garnered too many passionate opponents and supporters to not have been saying anything these past 7 years.
And you can’t compare anyone to Thomas Jefferson. Any contemporary politician would sound weak in comparison.
For someone who is clearly intelligent, insightful, and has a deep understanding of personality type, this post does you and your website no credit. Perhaps it will crank up your page views, presumably your intent behind writing such a post, but it waters down the integrity of the rest of the site. Anyone who is well versed in personality type and who has read Obama’s books or listened carefully to his speeches over his 2 terms as president would not make such typology mistake. ISFJ? Listen to these passages from his book “The Audacity of Hope”
“By the time I was sixteen we were arguing all the time, usually about me failing to abide by what I considered to be an endless series of petty and arbitrary rules–filling up the gas tank whenever I borrowed the car, say, or making sure that I rinsed out the milk carton before I put it in the garbage. With a certain talent for rhetoric, as well as an absolute certainty about the
merits of my own views, I found I could generally win these arguments, in the narrow sense of leaving my grandfather flustered, angry, and sounding unreasonable.”
“In my teens, I became fascinated with the Dionysian, up-for-grabs quality of the era, and through books, films, and music I soaked in a vision of the sixties….If I had no immediate reasons to pursue revolution, I decided nevertheless that in style and attitude I, too, could be a rebel, unconstrained by the received wisdom of the over-thirty crowd.”
….said no ISFJ ever.
Why would an ISFJ not talk like that?
INFJs are not mindless rebels. That actually sounds like the pull of inferior Ne… Dexterous, expansive collection of information from specific eras as well as arguing simply to flex one’s intelligence, that’s Ne Si stuff. The INFJ often skips the rebel stage; too advanced for that shit.lol Really we’re just very sneaky during those yrs… And when we do rebel, we know *exactly* why… It’s not just teenage angst, we have strong convictions that people are stupidly following traditions that completely miss the point.
I think the idea a lot of people have about ISFJs is that they’re kind of dumb. They’re actually one of the more savvy types, and not just the common sense stuff either. They correspond to Virgo Rising, a mutable sign ruled by Mercury, planet of intellect and communication. They seem to have greater access to Ne information than ISTJs, anyway, who, in my experience, consistently come off pretty dense. So it doesn’t surprise me that Obama showed an interest in what may appear to be intuitive activities. The point is his intellect is not cutting. He apparently did not and continues to miss the core of issues. He’s not a true revolutionary; there’s no fire in him. Just the sameoldsameold in shiny new packaging.
(replying to Blake)
ISFJs are more likely to play by the rules than to be rebels. They may dream of doing something spontaneous, and sometimes spontaneous behavior does come out in activities that they feel comfortable in, like…trying a new flavor of ice cream at that store they always go to. Or this time, buying this funky print dress they didn’t think they could pull of. They do controlled spontaneity and exploration within an Si framework.
ISFJs also generally do not have a talent for rhetoric and argument, nor are they rebels. Again, they feel comfort in the known, so why would they rebel? Most ISFJs feel terribly sorry if they step on your toes or make you upset, and until they develop their Fe can sometimes be push overs /foot mats for people to walk all over (hence their propensity to passive aggression–they don’t argue, they just sulk and hope eventually you get why they are sulking)
Also, Michelle Obama. I see her as an intuitive thinking type. I know Celebrity types has her as an ESTJ but, I don’t think so. I’d more readily type her as an INTJ or ENTJ. I can’t see an ISFJ/INTJ or ISFJ/ENTJ pairing having as seemingly strong and understand marriage as Barack and Michelle seem to have. Michelle describes Obama in his youth as being kind of a bum, he smoked weed, was messy, drove a car with a hole in the floor–ISFJs are generally pretty put together and responsible. I could see an ISFJ having a junk car if thats the car they always drove and were too attached to get rid of it, otherwise, that description (and the above texts I posted) are far more suited to an XNXP type.
Lastly, both Obama and Michelle studied law. Law is the realm of Te. Not saying non Te users don’t study law or politics, but…it makes so much more sense if Obama and Michelle are a ENFP/INTJ or ENFP/ENTJ couple.
Yes, I’d say Obama is ENFP. I don’t see Fe at all, he is quite awkward at times when dealing with people. You can tell he is a Feeler, but it doesnt have the same warmth that an Fe user would have (like the end of this interview) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZnXbPZ6R3w
I’ve heard interviews where he gets kind of lost in his ideas and becomes a little oblivious (like ENFPs and INFPs do) like this interview @4:17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9svEs9P6g20 . First he is pretty oblivious to Michelle being like “wtf are you talking about Barack” and, Ne-user style, open to his outer world, no systemization (eat my pie how I want!) and that is driving Michelle freaking nuts (yeah, as an INFJ who has dated NPs, I KNOW this situation, the “wtf are you doing, can’t you see this is not efficient/orderly/neat/tidy” and the NP being like “….wait, what? Did I do something? What are you talking about?”)
I think ISFJs are great, I just think they tend to excel and shine when trying new things in a known environment. All that Obama has accomplished and done, coming from where he came from….it just seems like too much unknown, new, exploratory territory for an ISFJ to thrive.
Sincerely, yet another INFJ
ISFJs also generally do not have a talent for rhetoric and argument
Disagree, they have some of the strongest ability for rhetoric due to Fe auxiliary with Ti tertiary.
Most ISFJs feel terribly sorry if they step on your toes or make you upset, and until they develop their Fe can sometimes be push overs /foot mats for people to walk all over (hence their propensity to passive aggression–they don’t argue, they just sulk and hope eventually you get why they are sulking)
No, that’s more INFP what you are describing. In my view, ISFJs may appear to be pushovers, but, they are some of the cleverest and canny people around. Read my article ISFJ: The Jewish Type to get a flavor for what I am talking about with ISFJ. They rule at the root.
Lastly, both Obama and Michelle studied law. Law is the realm of Te. Not saying non Te users don’t study law or politics, but
Law is not just Te. Ti is strong in the field of law, especially Ti Aquarius. Fe is helpful too because of the rhetoric and persuasive side of law. In short, law is a broad field that encompasses a wide variety of different approaches, however, yes, I agree that law is mostly a thing of the thinking function in general. ISFJs have tertiary Ti. ENFPs have tertiary Te. Either type could do law.
Constitutional law (Obama’s specialty) would involve Ti over Te. Te is pretty much the letter of the law, as in the actual rules themselves. The principles behind why those laws exist is a much more Ti thing. And it is well-known that the constitution is wide open to interpretation. It is far from being a set of precise legal codes that are explicitly stated and enumerate every possible exception to the basic principle being stated. That sort of law would be very Si-Te. There is no interpretation involved in it. It’s the question “What laws are on the books?” and the simple memorization of them. And all the particular exceptions and qualifications of them enumerated in vast detail (Si). There is no questioning or interpreting of them. Unless they are found to be in conflict with each other. in which case, more qualifications have to be added to the laws.
Anyway, I see NO Te in Obama. Especially if he was a sloppy, pot-smoking bum with holes in his shoes. That shows more a lack of Te than Si or Fe. Te is the function that most has it’s shit together. It does not necessarily stand to follow that ISFJs would be this way, though, I think many of them are. I think an ISFJ could smoke pot and be unkempt. As long as it didn’t interfere too much with their basic grip on the earthly. ISFJs aren’t ISTJs. ISTJs are the ones that are anal about rules and having things in order. ISFJs can be softly oblivious to it. ISFJs often hate too much Te rigidity of protocol.
Obama does not strike me as an intuitive dominant type either. I see Fe and Ti in his rhetoric (in that order) and coming from a place of blandness, placation, mildness, and in short, all the things of Si dominance. He’s a good talker in the sense that he’s quick and never at a loss for what to say.
I don’t think Obama has done anything unknown or new or radical or exploratory. Far from it. He has however been very good at presenting a benign and progressive image that seems to advocate change and that is non-dictatorial and non-interfering. Remember, it was all about “yes, we can”.
Obama has a very Fe image. With an Si background. I described what that looks like in this article and I still feel the same way about it.
You can see whatever you want to see in it. Some people see sincerity. Others see a smooth-sounding flow of rhetoric that doesn’t amount to that much.
Yes, ENFPs can definitely be very smooth talkers. But, they usually give a sense of some vision that they are on fire about in the background of their context. That’s Ne dominance. I do not see this at all in Obama.
If you do, blame it on his Fe auxiliary. ISFJs use this to throw up a smokescreen to cover their intentions (or lack thereof).
I think many people were in a state of wanting to believe and along comes Mr. Obama to ascribe and inscribe upon his chameleonic personality and hear and see whatever they wanted to hear and see in his rhetoric.
Personally, I heard nothing.
And now that eight years have passed, it has been confirmed. Obama hasn’t backed up in actions what he claimed he stood for. He has made a bunch of placating milk and water compromises that are…well, like watered-down milk. Nothing to get excited about. It’s ho-hum. It’s bland. It hath no strong taste. No fire of vision.
Let me put it this way. If Obama is an ENFP, he is one of the weakest examples of the type I have ever seen.
all your remark really tells me is you are probably an Ni type, probably INTJ. Any outside insight seems just to bounce off you like rubber bullets, and thats a pretty aggressive counter remark. Your remark also tells me you probably don’t like Obama much, so I’m kind of apprehensive since dislike often clouds judgement.
Again, none of us can really know unless we were to personally get to know him. I don’t know with utmost confidence that he is an ENFP, but its a gut feeling he is some kind of NP type, simply from reading his two books and listening to many of his interviews. Don’t judge his personality type on his presidency. I mean, for fucks sake. I doubt anyone’s true colors could truly shine under that much responsibility, scrutiny, and criticism. There are certain behaviours that are expected of you, so you may project an image not entirely authentic to your true self at times. What you accomplish has less to do with your own abilities and drive than it has to do with how negotiable and willing your congress is. I think people see the president as having far more power than he really does. So to say he hasn’t been exploratory because his presidency hasn’t accomplished much radical change is weak.
I absolutely 100% agree with this reply. It’s what I wanted to say.
The original post has a strong air of not liking the politics of Obama and/or not trusting politicians.
What about him indicates he’s just saying what people want to hear?
What about him indicates he’s just saying what people want to hear?
Everything. If you can’t see through Obama, I don’t know what to tell you. You either see it or you don’t. He is not a true and genuine guy. What he says does not have the ring of truth. That’s about it.
And you’re right, I do not like Obama or his politics, but, I thought that was obvious. It probaly does influence my typing of him for the simple reason that when I don’t like someone, they are not highly likely to be one of the types I like the most. Simple.
Yes, I’m biased. I have preferences. And so do you. And so does most of the media you read, listen to, or watch. It’s called leftist bias.
“He’s not a true and genuine guy” man am so gonna just ponder that one.:)
Because I know how this can look in some isfj momentsout there in existence. Not the kind of thing you are gonna see leaking out that easily in a public performance , so how do you infer it… yes I am sure it can be done! Then maybe my tooth will stop hurting from the rush of discovery!
My only immediate dumb answer is how chill he remains about his fights. And what does that even mean? No idea! But too chill for esfj. Not hot enough for entp engaged in battle. Can an istp be not true and genuine etc…. it’s the overall vibe sometimes hmmm you just wish you can seize.
I think that you’re using one interesting premise but then you fail to land the finl blow in explaining why it is aux Fe and not lead Fe. I’m just going to say that I still ride the ENFJ wagon for Obama. I completely agree with you about type having to be seen as a whole, typology is holistic and I’ve had serious and painful arguments with peopl who can’t understand this. In this case I will keep it simple though and I will try to convince you of Fe dom, then maybe we can argue between ESFJ and ENFJ (although based on his apparent introversion, ENFJ seems more likely).
Fe doms are naturals at manipulating, much more than us aux Fe users, yet they’re the ones constantly accusing us of doing so. I can’t stomach Obama using people everytime he wants to push political agenda (whether it’s dead children on the night of Sandy Hook, amputees during the State of the Union, or a few cancer survivors when pushing the ACA). The thing is, in many cases, Fe doms don’t relize they’re making emotional claims, they truly see themselves as much more rational than they really are. It’s quite blatant. I still remember the day S&P downgraded American debt ratings. His defense that day was simply: “America has always been and will continue to be a AAA country.” Quite deskpalm worthy. I’ve never seen him provide any evidence for any of his claims, it’s always the blandishing of some emotional flag. ISFJs are people of limited interests. They might like only 2 or 3 things in life but when it comes to those things, it’s quite hard to find someone who knows more about those things than them. They really know their stuff (Si + Ti). In Obama’s case, can you mention one thing he’s really good at (other than public speaking)? I don’t think so. He’s weak on knowlege of legal, economics, and even diplomacy. He spent years saying that the Republicans never wanted to negotiate when he never wanted to negotiate himself. All his attacks on his opponents are based on sarcsm, projection, or manipulation. When confronted with ideas and real questions, he fails (remember that first debate against Romney?).
I’m just putting this out there, for what it’s worth I think that anyone who knows the first thing about typology can rule out Fi and can rule him out as a rational. Good work here with all your articles and stuff. You have a very interesting mind.
“I think that you’re using one interesting premise but then you fail to land the finl blow in explaining why it is aux Fe and not lead Fe.”
Aux Fe is leading. And so I think we are mostly having a semantics argument rather than any disagreement about Obama’s nature.
I have come to view the auxiliary function as the personality projection for a type, so often the first thing that you will see in a person is their auxiliary, not their dominant, especially if they are a public figure and are putting on a performance.
So, that may be the reason that you think he is an ExFJ type and I think he is an ISFJ type.
Also, I see no Ni in Obama, especially, auxiliary Ni, where Ni tends to create a very strong presence and projection. Obama is rather the antithesis of this strong presence and sense of stance. What I see is Fe auxiliary, which is great for projecting a cloak of invisibility and masking such that others have a hard time figuring out where they are coming from or even paying close attention to what they are really saying. Also, Fe auxiliary is great for projecting a rather bland substrate where everyone can see what they want to see in it. This is Fe projective not dominant (to my understanding at least).
Dominant functions are often harder to suss out. They lie more at a center of consciousness and are very involved and busy in orienting the ego. So, an Fe dominant type will have less of this projective Fe and more of a recessive Fe. What you will see in an Fe dominant is more their introverted perceiving auxiliary personality projection, which is pretty strong and definite as a projection.
I would be more inclined to see Obama as an INFJ before I would see him as an ExFJ due to this particular phenomenon I’m talking about. INFJs have this Fe auxiliary ability to cloak themselves as well. Fe can also be used to project all the colors of the rainbow. Or none at all. Depends on the intent of the abiding consciousness, which would be the dominant function. The abiding consciousness I sense in Obama, behind his catchall rhetoric is Si in nature rather than Ni, which means even more catchall and anything goes. Just whatever. Abiding Ni is very definite and strong in some way. INFJs have this usually. In some INFJs it can be very hard to detect, very recessed and muted, but still there in quality.
In Obama, nope. Not a trace. It’s all just an Fe (with Ti trailing) projection. Fe and Ti in the auxiliary/tertiary position are extremely good at saying things that sound good and seem to be logical and to follow. It’s great for artists and conmen. Persuaders of all types. Soft sell. Lulling. Reasonable. All that kind of thing.
What is Obama trying to sell?
Nothing. There is nothing behind his rhetoric. It’s all smooth and bland and reasonable (though it’s not really reasonable if one can wake up out of the lull and actually try to follow what he is saying).
Fe in the auxiliary can gently lull others to sleep. It can kill softly with its song. Etc.
“What I see is Fe auxiliary, which is great for projecting a cloak of invisibility and masking such that others have a hard time figuring out where they are coming from or even paying close attention to what they are really saying. ”
Wow. This is a SUPERPOWER. Seriously. I’d like to have this in my arsenal!
He rarely makes eyes contact or looks around. That’s not a Dom Fe trait. He would be much more unique in appearance and style as an ISFJ. If you look at him when he was younger, he is much less polished. Also F is called ‘ethical’ in Jungian theory. The natural traits one possesses aren’t used to manipulate. We use our shadow functions when we reach for a trait to use when we feel the need to not be authentic.
You are waaaay off on this one, Blake. I generally follow your logic with the myers briggs, but I would suggest that you have some blinders on when it comes to Obama and his lack of “agenda.” Obama is first and foremost a pragmatic thinker. He thinks long-term strategy, but I believe his social agenda is sincere and has always been there. It motivates him more than his own ego. He just can’t be as overt about it because he is the-first-black-president. Always, and foremost, he knows that he is the-first-black-president. His execution has to be flawless to overcome that hurdle. Watch when he turns into the shark. This is his true self, an to me it looks like an ENTJ or ENFJ. So go back to the drawing board on this one, methinks.
Well, I’d guess you’d have to believe that Obama’s true self is a shark.
I don’t.
He is much more like the way I described ISFJs ( then the way I described ENTJs or ENFJs. And if you follow the logic of the way I see those types, then, to me it is clear that Obama best fits with ISFJ of the three.
If you don’t follow the logic of those descriptions, then, that is a different matter, more of a semantical difference about the types rather than a disagreement over the true nature of Obama.
So, if you follow the logic of this site and think that Obama fits with ENTJ or ENFJ in the general manner I describe them, then, we are seeing different things in Obama. Nowhere do I see auxiliary Ni in this guy. Auxiliary Ni presents a very strong and definite impression that I find ummistakable in manifestation.
No, Obama shows all the signs of aux. Fe, which in contradistinction to aux. Ni is indefinite, dissolved, multi-arrayed, shifting, uncertain, throwing off many different impressions, chameleon-like, smokescreening, and in short, leads to a non-definite impression.
I think Obama is a pragmatist ultimately. And he is good at telling people what they want to hear in a soft stance kind of way.
Sorry, that’s what I see. I stand by it.
I think part of the problem is that the ISFJ type is misunderstood and underassigned as a type. Please read my article on them if you have not done so. It might clear things up in this regard, and if you follow the general logic of this site, it may be eye-opening.
I don’t know Blake. I personally don’t have too much difficulty typing INFJs or ISFJs, provided that I know them well enough of course. There is quite a large difference between these two types in appearance, body language and overall personality/behavior in most cases, in my opinion. I honestly think there’s only one type whose auxiliary Fe makes them hard to type(usually not ISFJs). I could definitely understand auxiliary Fe making it hard to type an ISFJ if you don’t know them that well, but I don’t know that Obama is a case of this. I’m definitely not saying that Obama is not an ISFJ, but it’s hard to tell because nearly everything he says is pre-written by his handlers. That could be why he seems to not really stand for anything; he’s told what to say more or less, lol. Maybe that’s what you’re seeing? I definitely don’t think he’s an INFJ. I guess ISFJ is possible, but he seems more like an extrovert to me.
Anyway, I remember back when I was 15 in HS and another INFJ(with strong Fi, and he almost came across as a more of a thinker, actually like an ISTP) in my class was strongly supporting Obama and was excited about the supposed “change” he was going to bring, but even back then I saw through the BS and knew he would only do what the “TPTB” wanted him to do. Although back then I remember supporting the freemason Ron paul, so I wasn’t immune to being duped as well being a naive little INFJ :p. I kind of wish Ron paul was running again in this election cycle, just to make it more interesting/entertaining. Funny that i’m typing this with the democratic debate on in the background, haha.
So, what type do you think Obama is?
Well, given some of the reasons I’ve stated above, I don’t think it’s really possible to ascertain Obama’s true type with any real certainty. I believe it was more or less his “job” to come in during the 07-08 election cycle(and even quite a bit before that) and play the role of the savior that will bring about dramatic change and get people from both traditional parties(especially democrats/independents) enthusiastically involved in the system again. Of course we now see how that turned out, and as for the change that Obama promised.. well, you get what I mean lol. I think this is why you perceive him as not really standing for anything, that’s because he’s basically playing a role and is told what to say, so you’re actually spot on. BUT, does that automatically make him an ISFJ? I don’t think so. I think it could actually be insulting to ISFJs to assume that just based on the above lol. I do personally think that he is likely an FJ of some type or at the very least a Fe user, just taking his character at face value, but beyond the manipulation, I really don’t know. The only thing is I’d say for sure is that he has to be a Fe user to be able to play that role, so ISFJ is not out of the question.
I’m sorry to change the topic here, because this is not directly related to the post, but yet it kind of is at the same time so I’ll bring it up. I might be getting crazy here lol , but this example popped into my head when reading your post so I’ll share it. I hope it will be entertaining at least. Here is a different example of what I’m talking about above, and that is the example of Bill Hicks and Alex Jones. Role playing. What am I talking about? Well, it may sound crazy to you(or it might not), but after doing a good amount of research on it, I’ve come to the conclusion that they are the same person(And I’m not the only one there, btw 😉 ). I think that Alex Jones is a just character that is played by Bill Hicks, if that’s even his real name to begin with. I know that sounds waay out there if you’re just hearing this for the first time, but there is good evidence to support this. If it is true, then why did the supposed ENTP Bill Hicks fake his death in 94 in order to become Alex jones? I have my theory, but I don’t really want to share it here. Bill actually started taking on parts of the AJ role near the end of his comedian career(early 90s) if you pay attention closely enough. I know you type Bill Hicks as an ENTP, and I would agree with that just going off what he says alone, but what about Alex Jones then? If he is really Bill Hicks, then would that change Bill’s typing to you? Could a true ENTP play such a role for that long? I don’t think so. Something else must be going on, just like with Obama. This would be something very interesting to look into and you could spend quite a while analyzing. Anyway, here’s a few breadcrumbs to get you started:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymaOg_rgo0o
Here’s him trying to make a joke about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJGQfhYWpa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGgOxnjqJEA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K1yDTje5KA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP2VWWjTScw
There’s so much more. Those are just a few random examples I’ve pulled off youtube in about 5 minutes. You’ll have to spend at least a day analyzing this before you can come to an honest conclusion. I’m convinced of this because I’ve listened to both Alex jones and Bill Hicks since I was about 15, so I already knew them both quite well when I first heard of this theory. I also looked through all of the info I could find on this and I have to trust my intuition on this, even at the risk of sounding crazy :$. It is pretty funny though, isn’t it? 😉
I know this is completely off topic in regards to Obama and his type, but I felt like sharing it anyway to see what you think because I know you’re a fan of Bill Hicks.
Dude, there is a lesson here in learning to take things at face value.
I don’t need to know anything about Obama beyond what he has presented. I don’t need to know his motivations. I don’t need to know him. I don’t need to know anybody.
You will know them by their fruits (biblical reference).
It is all there to be seen. No need to go down a rabbit hole.
Lesson: Things are what they appear to be.
Like how you knew in about the first 5 minutes of hearing Ron Paul talk that he was a genuine guy on some level. There was truth there.
Similarly, how you knew in the first 5 minutes of hearing Obama talk that there was something missing there. That something could be called “the ring of truth.”
Now here is the problem with Ni users. They pick up on this type of shit. And they know in the very first instants whether there is truth there or not.
The mistake they make is going down the fucking rabbit hole and losing all outside references in a deepening and intensification of that truth until the whole world becomes a conspiracy theory.
Now, nothing is any longer what it appears to be. Quite the opposite. Now everything has some hidden meaning that is being obscured.
This is where Ni users fuck themselves and make themselves look ridiculous and extreme in the process. What started out as normal reaction becomes a reinterpretation of the whole world into a conspiracy.
I got news for you. Most things are not a conspiracy. Which is not to say that there aren’t conspiracies going on at a high-level but for the most part there aren’t.
So, do I think Bill Hicks faked his death to come back as Alex Jones. No, I fucking don’t. Why? Because first of all, even if he did, it wouldn’t be an important enough thing to think about for me. Just like I don’t need to spend my time looking into the sky for chemtrails. Or reaching into this, that, and the other thing to justify how the world is not what it appears to be.
I have learned when to stop. I have learned limitation. I mean, yeah, you could be on an acid trip day in and day out and find truth in that but here is the thing – learn how to stop at surfaces.
Ni takes most of its first impulse about things from Se surface. It can infer the core from the surface manifestation.
Conversely, Ni fucks itself when it jumps into the rabbit hole. It is basically saying goodbye to all outside reference when it does that. That is exactly how it gets unbalanced and absurd. What was originally right on the money becomes taken to the point of absurdity.
And the way you are communicating is a good example of this. I simply asked you what you thought Obama’s type was. And you waver and waffle, and then, go down this completely other tangent. You think I am giving ISFJs a bad name? This is the kind of shit that gives all those sensors the fodder with which to dismiss INFJs as kooks, whackos, and conspiracy theorists.
And the ironic thing is that there are conspiracy theories but by diving into the rabbit hole you make it less likely that those real conspiracies will be taken seriously. Why? Because they are all mixed up with absurd and far-reaching, out-of-touch with reality shit like whether Alex Jones is really Bill Hicks.
You see how you have reduced your scope? You see how absurd that looks to the average person? Forget whether it is even true or not. Is this something that is really worth pursuing and spending hours of your time researching? Check your true motives for wanting to spend time examining that. Don’t you really just want to live in a fantasy world?
Ron Paul doesn’t live in this fantasy world. He knows where to stop.
So, in conclusion, Obama is an ISFJ. That is the only reasonable thing I can conclude based on these wonderful counterarguments.
Do I think ISFJs will be offended by what I wrote? Not really, I think they can see this aspect of themselves more or less. They might not phrase it as “being puppets” like I did, but, many ISFJs seem to be fine admitting that they are not much in the way of visionaries or iconoclasts. I think they can see their scope more or less.
Anyway, thanks for the breadcrumbs, but, I will not be following them. Been there. I’ve realized the wisdom of rabbit holes. If you want to go to Wonderland, go to Wonderland. If you want to go through the looking glass, go through the looking glass. But, the farther you go, the harder it is to get home. And the hole is not home.
I would type Alex Jones as a enneatype 8 ENTJ. He is what he appears to be – a guy for truth, bullshit, commerce, his own glorification, and so on. Don’t take him as a purity or an either/or phenomenon. Aleister Crowley is a similar personage in this light.
Fuck, I knew I could be coming across as crazy posting that(I even said that in the post), but I think there is a reason it might be worth looking into in some cases. I understand that it may seem insignificant even if it turns out that Alex Jones is Bill, but knowing the level of manipulation that is going on on this planet could be valuable, but then again it might not at the same time, especially when most average people have absolutely no idea and even if they were shown this, it wouldn’t really empower them in any meaningful way at all, I agree. So, I definitely get where you’re coming from there. Even researching that type of thing could easily turn into to a distraction. But, even if you don’t think he is Bill, it might be worth watching a couple of those videos, even if just for entertainment, especially the second one, which was quite funny ;). As for typing AJ as an ENTJ type 8, I completely agree with that and even said so myself, just taking into account his on-air personality. Thanks for the comment 🙂
No problem 🙂
He doesn’t even look like Bill Hicks, much. Or do you think he had cosmetic surgery ?
Arc,
I have no opinion about Barack Obama. He could be about any type to me. Blake’s ISFJ case is as good as any and probably better than most. It seems a little off somehow, but I have nothing to offer in its place so…. I will say, I’m with you on Ron Paul. I wish he had been running this election cycle. Things don’t have to be a conspiracy to operate like a conspiracy and Ron Paul got little attention in the media even when his initial numbers were ahead of his competitors last cycle. Do I think it was a true conspiracy, no! They just paid more attention to what and who they thought would bring in the most ratings most likely or who looked or acted like those they thought would fly in the end. Gnatty attention spans we all have now.
Anyway, it is a good article and I loved the unexpected food for thought.
Very interesting discussion here. I have to say I think you make a very good case, but Obama is a tricky one I would say. Definitely not an E type that is for sure. I had read Obama being typed as an ENTP, which I can see certain ways that could point to that, but no way. Has there ever been an ENTP president? I am sure you could find some as presidential advisors, but I don’t think an ENTP would ever be attracted to the job of the presidency. It is all about having to make decisions, and we hate that shit generally, we love floating in vast seas of gray areas, and would rather espouse our thoughts on any matter (of which we will have A LOT) but leave the actual nitty gritty details of running the world to someone else.
“Comfort, ease, pleasantness, materiality, status quo, and in short, nothing radical or anything that is bound to upset one’s digestion.”
Lol, and sometimes the digestion bit in a literal sense:) The ISFJ in my family talks a lot about her digestion while and after we eat. Drives me up the wall to get the daily report.
No way could Obama be ISFJ, that would be the most way off the mark one i’ve heard yet. You clearly haven’t read his books. In Dreams From My Father, brother goes so deep into introspection and rumination in his books (Dreams From My Father for instance) that any sensor would drown if they tried. You are writing about Obama from your imagination, with no reference whatsoever to his work, where he lays out how he thinks and feels and what he thinks and feels about. I thought he was ENFJ for the longest time until i came across some articles which referenced his overt introversion, and they cause me to change my mind. And so now, i see him as INFJ.
You clearly haven’t read his books.
Yeah, I haven’t read a lot of people’s books, however, I don’t need to read an entire book to type someone. I have listened to Obama speak many times. I have watched his body language and facial movements several times. I find this to be the most accurate way to type. Watching a person for too long leads to enmeshments that I seek to avoid.
You say that Obama goes deep into introspection in his books. First of all, I don’t know what you mean. Cite passages of this dynamic. Secondly, introverts can be introspective and ruminative, even ISFJs. Personally, I think ISFJs have been superficialized as a type. I think that is more to the point. Not whether Obama is or isn’t superficial.
You are writing about Obama from your imagination, with no reference whatsoever to his work, where he lays out how he thinks and feels and what he thinks and feels about.
No, I’m not. All those people that were crying at his first inauguration were the ones that were referencing Obama from their imaginations. I, quite the opposite, am writing about Obama from reality. I just paid attention to the things I heard him say and the way he said it during his first campaign. That’s all I need.
It is quite obvious to me that Obama is either a liar or ineffectual. In either case, it doesn’t change his case.
Yes, I know Obama can talk at great length about things that are apparently very deep and moving to people. But, that’s their imagination, not mine. I have NEVER heard Obama say anything of any great substance.
I thought he was ENFJ for the longest time until i came across some articles which referenced his overt introversion, and they cause me to change my mind. And so now, i see him as INFJ.
Well, now you can see him as an ISFJ. And then maybe next year you can see him as an ENFP. And so on. I have always seen him as an ISFJ. Maybe you need to learn more about the ISFJ type. Me thinks that is your problem.
You can start with my article ISFJ: The Jewish Type.
I just don’t get how one types people:):)
I totally follow this article. But then at the same type, Obama resembles an istp friend (took the test, agrees with his result) so much that I can’t watch Obama without thinking of this istp friend. Uncanny resemblance. This istp friend is actually pretty smooth and can turn into a real fj type at times and in general, he “rises” to the occasion. I have another istp friend that is less smooth in that sense. I have no idea how to ignore these resemblances to get an accurate typing of someone.
How do you guys do this typing business??
I am picturing a calculating istp who gets into enfj granddaddy possibly even patronizing mode because he knows that is a wise role to play and is all into being the cool president. What’s wrong with my brain…….
How do you guys do this typing business??
It would be a very difficult thing to explain within the nature of a comment and actually is a subject that deserves much attention devoted to it.
Because it’s not really what type you arrive at, but, how the fuck did you get to that type? Like showing your work in math.
And everyone has all these different methods or rather I should say most of the ways that people type are inextricably shrouded in a subjective process that is not easily amenable to objectification, or standardization.
In short, I would say it is mostly an intuitive process. You either see it or you don’t. And the ones that can see it all get together and congratulate each other for being on the same page and other people say what a bunch of idiots they are. And other people…and so on and so forth.
In a nutshell, there is no authority for who is right or wrong in doing a typing. Most people disagree with me on my typing of Obama as ISFJ.
But then, I also maintain that most people don’t know what an ISFJ is beyond a rather shallow interpretation of them as slightly less boring ISTJs.
So, people do this typing business pretty willy-nilly and according to their own understandings of the functions, the positions, the full-scale types that arise from the constellation of those two things and finally the attribution of those things to actual people.
An error anywhere in that process could lead to a mistyping.
I thought it would be interesting to say Obama is an ISFJ because he has been named as almost every other type and I think they’re all wrong. Obviously, there is not a consensus on what Obama’s type is.
And I don’t give a fuck because I’m just having fun. I’m a math geek.
Obama may be no type for all I care or know.
But, for the purposes of this article you are invited to look at and consider him as an instance of the ISFJ type.
If you think he is an ISTP, that’s fine. I mean, afterall, there is a relationship between all these types and ISTP and ISFJ don’t seem that far apart. An ISFJ in an Si-Ti loop could resemble an ISTP.
ENFJ? Yeah, I’ve seen that one too. I think that’s farther off the mark. But, maybe he is.
Fucked if I care.
Just kidding.
I care, but, I must purposely delimit my caring to fit into rational standards such that I don’t jump off a fucking bridge at this stuff.
Because when you’re looking for mathematical certainty in this realm, you are bound to go crazy after a point when you realize how loose and slippery and subjective it all is. Shit, David Foster Wallace committed suicide for just this reason I believe.
So, I don’t give a fuck.
For survival purposes, you understand.
What Blake said.
I had a go at replying to you earlier today, Lunar, but had to give up as I was still at work and ran out of time. Then Blake came to the rescue, covering what I wanted to say (and a whole lot more!) in his own inimitable style.
And of course he’s right: how can you be certain of accurately assessing another person’s MBTI type when there is no authoritative answer? How can there be, when even the “experts” can’t reach a consensus?
So why bother, when mathematical certainty is impossible?
To answer that question we must turn it on its head. Mathematical certainty? We are dealing with messy, complex, organic, living, evolving psyches here, people! Any theory of mind that claims absolute certainty cannot be taken seriously in the realm of the uncertain. The value of maths in psychology is for calculating statistical probabilities and degrees of uncertainty.
All is not lost however, as evidence for the Jungian type functions can be perceived in an individuals behaviour and use of language, among other things. By patiently observing many different types over an extended period of time in differing contexts, consistent patterns begin to emerge from the chaos of raw data, and these patterns are constrained by a set of rules which gives them a finite number of arrangements. In other words, the structure of an individual’s psyche is limited to a small number of possibilities (16, say) and this is what is meant by a psychological type. There is a beautiful elegance and symmetry to all of Nature’s works, and the psyche is no exception.
@Blake, Stewart (I like your screaming pic, it’s how mbti makes me feel lol)
Yeah was just trying to imagine what I would do when I get this istp sense how to get to the bottom of it, like go further than that cross-impression. That is where I start to see any type in anyone, well a nice handful of types in any case.
So from here on out, if you read it’s your fault:):) Teehee.
In Obama’s case, I guess isfj and istp are only two types I can picture so that is already something.
There is some kind of actor in most isfjs I know.
The istps I know aren’t exactly actors but do have this desire to ?belong? and be cool and keep up “the look”. They sometimes get into gaming their life. My istp friend who likes to play actual chess…. sometimes when you talk to him, EVERYTHING seems like a chess game. He wants to just look ahead and come out a winner and will just start working on you (feels like being pushed on lol)…. even when it’s like you have no idea why he cares. It gets kind of hilarious at times. Even though he is like this he has been known to tear up when on the receiving end of confrontation. It was very surprising to me. Emo not sooo far down the surface. And he sometimes just backs down. Retreat. Like the doesn’t have endless capacity for the “fight” at all. Then he can say really banal cautious stuff because he doesn’t want to fight. He can turn into an outwardly banal seeming person. I think because he is really more cerebral and internal than just to go around muscling. Anyhow he isn’t an actor. He is pretty authentic but calculating. So sometimes you get this sense of someone trying to hide his cards, except that it looks just like that, so you are not really in the dark. He researched everything for a job interview. Really down to every last bit. Very politically savvy in a way he is. I can somehow slide this impression over onto Obama it could “fly”.
Obama has been described as explaining the logic and then just hoping people will buy into it.
I can see everything both ways. Like his use of high tech to reach more people, I can see it as a very Fe thing or as a very tactical thing or both. The political savvy, I can see that as isfj genius or istp genius. He describes that one of his best skills is to poke holes into arguments presented to him. Like he is good at surrounding himself with experts and then running them through the wringer so he says in his own words.
The one thing that looks more “likely” isfj to me is his conversational smoothness. So yeah. His answers sound consistently smooth, which is almost…. hmmm….weird? In that sense, it is kind of hard to see the istp. He also seems to enjoy sharing about family. Like it’s clearly not just politeness. He seems to get real joy with the sharing of that stuff and he shares with some expressive skill that really is winning. It comes easy. Not typical istp stuff. (Yet he is kind of stiff even then?) So yeah…. I guess that is how I would then start leaning toward isfj. Well there is one more thing… istps are probably overall more matter of fact about what they care about or the principles they adhere to??? I find that Obama is more cagey. Is that inherent in his personality or political stuff?
He has that thing that you see in infjs too. It literally looks like someone who can do “both”, think and feel (yes I know we all can, but what is the balance…) Hybrid. Obama has that hybrid feel to him. My istp friend also has that hybrid feel (that another istp friend does not have) and incidentally my istp friend is left handed. Many isfjs have the hybrid feel too. So I guess that tells me nothing.
He likes to show off coolness (I think). That is kind of both Se and Fe.
YES, the idea of a stiff, cerebral isfj IS interesting:) I like it. And I definitely don’t disbelieve it. That’s why this is in my top 3 favorite articles here:)
Just trying to figure it out…. if there appears to be a surprising Ti/Fe balance, then one should check out ifj types…. okay mental note.
@Blake
“Like showing your work in math.”
Gotcha bingo. 🙂
Actually yes ISTP isn’t that far from ISFJ. I have seen ISTP gravitate to ISFJs. Have seen them being basically good kids in a way that can look like culture upholders. The “F-y ” ISTP I know always appears to be developing a game plan for his life and trying to see how much he can delegate to others. He is quite charismatic and taps people on their shoulders like they are comerades. He kind of plays that patriarch role. I thought it was surprising that Obama calls his greatest weakness that he is lazy behind his work. But I can totally see how thes could be true of an isfj as well.
In any case, Obama shows TI usage, and has this ” homebody” thing. Like he really has to go home to his family. I can see how isfj fits.
Anyhow, even high-tech usage, that’s just HIS team. He just has to assemble the right team. Whatever that skill is that is what he needs.
Hmmm. Actually, people say stuff like Obama is “professorial” and actually if you think about it that doesn’t mean anything. It’s like can noone say MORE about him? Why is there so little to say? Everything sounds so incredibly vague. That is what points to isfj the most.
Yeah, exactly. You can inscribe whatever you want on that bland substrate. No one can point to anything strong and definitive in Obama. It all has this quality of a soft, soothing, gently upbeat go to sleep type of thing.
ISFJs, in my opinion, are very good at this sort of soft, bland type of thing. What do they stand for? Shhh…redirect. Quietly.
I mean, what the fuck is Obama talking about? Seriously.
Here are the two things I picked up on that he said that were action items: He was going to end the wars overseas and he would rescind the Patriot Act.
I think that is why a great many people voted for him.
Ya know, it is like Obama had (has?) that ENFJ cult of personality thing going for him without it being obvious as to how he gained this stature. I mean, where is Obama’s personality?
People often talk about his “charisma” and how “articulate” and “well-spoken” he is. Vague things. I mean, yes, I suppose he is “well-spoken”, but, not incredibly so. I suppose he has some “charisma”, but, it ain’t any kind of overwhelming and highly palpable thing. I suppose he is “learned” and “professorial” and any number of adjectives and descriptors you want to throw at him. Someone even called him “a shark” (I think on this website in the comments of this article).
Point is no one knows who the fuck Obama is. He seems to be a catchall for whatever you may wish to see in him. And I think most people want to see him as a good guy that has everyone’s best interests in mind and would do us all a favor by not being some blustering and bumbling George Bush (junior) type figure. Like, he can actually speak well with full sentences and it sounds sort of mellifluous and … O, what a relief to a battered liberal electorate.
They weren’t looking for anything grandiose or nerve-rattling. I see Obama entering the political arena in the fray of 911 and the wars on terror and the spying on citizenry and so on. Well, here is someone kind of bland and well-spoken.
Obama is a very moderate type of guy.
So, ISFJ in sum to me. Definitely not ENFJ because they tend to have strong personalities, some of the strongest (and unstable) personalities on the Myers-Briggs block.
I don’t see that in Obama AT ALL. I could see other types as being possibly open to consideration, but, not ENFJ, whether we are talking enneatype 3 ENFJ and especially not type 8 ENFJ. Obama is like the antithesis of type 8 ENFJ. Where there should be strength and strong and definite vibrations and emanations (whether overt or insinuated) there is mildness and a sort of tender energy. I think people picked up on that sort of tender energy and were like “ah, sweet relief”. Obama, for whatever he says, tends to say it in a way that no definite points of resolve are easily latched onto or easily remembered. What one is left with is a sort of impression of benign blankness.
Obama can easily talk extemporaneously about many different things in a kind of middling tone. A little of this, a little of that. Whatever. And I think his talk is kind of like a soft blanket of equanimity to many people.
Because they don’t really want to know what is going on, they just want soft assurances that everything is going to work out and we’re all involved in it together and “Yes, WE can” and so on and so forth.
What does it mean?
Honestly, I have no idea. And when that is the case that I don’t know what things mean, I tend to say that it means nothing in particular.
Hence, Si is suspect. Si as a way of ego-orienting. Si as the main bag.
I see the Fe persona most definitely and personas equals auxiliary most particularly in my book. I see the Ti tertiary ease and ability in rhetoric, which is combined with the Fe catchall projection and kind of alternated in an Fe-Ti axis type deal. INFJs do the same thing, but, with Ni dominance, which means that shit means something. That’s the whole raison d etre of introverted intuition – meaning and preferably singular meaning of an intense and irrefutable order.
I don’t know. I think I’ll go jump off a cliff now. 🙂
Blake: “I think I’ll go jump off a cliff now.”
How about some black coffee and licorice instead? I’ve heard INFJs like that stuff. After that, if you really want to, we’ll just pack you up a base rig, so you’ll live to die another day. 😉 That should clear any sticky cob webs in this rabbit hole of type stuff out right nicely. Don’t ya’ think? 🙂 LOL!
@ Rita
I sublimated and jumped off a high board instead. So, I’m still among the living.
Yeah also there is his own-admitted “laziness” and the “cool reserve” that people allude to that he works with. That doesn’t sound extremely enfj. It kind of fits istp quite well actually but man all that smoothness would be like such an extremely well rounded istp.
I have never seen the goof inside Obama. I feel like isfjs have a goof in them somewhere. So we see him in serious mode. There is an interview of Obama with Seinfeld. Comedians getting coffee in cars, some title like that. Am gonna watch it and find the goof:)
There is an interview of Obama with Seinfeld. Comedians getting coffee in cars, some title like that. Am gonna watch it and find the goof:)
You mean this one. Should be called two ISFJs getting coffee in cars. Pretty funny rapport they have. I like Obama better this way – as a Seinfeldesque character.
Also, not to be racist or anything (because I’m not), but, Obama very much reminds me of Morgan Freeman’s vibe and physical comportment (and physique) in the vast bulk of his movies. I type Morgan as an ISFJ.
Now, Morgan has been paired with Clint Eastwood in a few movies and in those movies you do see the ISTP/ISFJ interplay very characteristically. ISFJ is the natural mother of the ISTP type. And with type relationships like that, there is a lot of crossover. Morgan often plays a sort of wise and funny commenter (wry) on the foibles of the human condition.
ISFJs have that very relaxed, mellow, wry, intelligent vibe. Very reasonable and sort of dry if they are mainly in Si-Ti.
But, Obama definitely has a lot of Fe in his easy mannerisms and responses to questions and whatnot. He is good at sort of going with the flow and playing along. Though, I do see in Obama that he has definitely curtailed his Fe to appear more serious and “presidential” and all that, but, I don’t believe him. He is essentially a guy that is more like Seinfeld than not. I do not see Se in him in the auxiliary position. I mean, Obama tries to act kind of “hard” and “impenetrable” or “imposing” and all that, but, I don’t feel that. I feel a guy that is basically an easy-going guy that is in his natural environment when he is talking about “nothingnesses” with his pal Jerry Seinfeld. Si really likes to talk about all the little things of daily life. Recounting and laughing graciously at them.
Also, if you notice, Obama does use quite a few Fe type words of appreciation as a way of persona projection. Like, the way he appreciates the corvette that Seinfeld and he are driving in. I think he looks at it and says “that’s outstanding”. And that is enough for an Fe auxiliary user (INFJs too) to commingle and fit in among other people. Fe aux users will often project and speak words of appreciation as their predominant way of “showing” when they are trying to make a good impression or keep things flowing along.
Obama is a goofy kind of guy that has learned to curtail it a bit for the purposes of working in Washington. But, you can see in this episode of Seinfeld and him that he is basically a goofy and easy kind of guy to sit down and talk with.
I believe I have seen ISTPs that were ISFJish and that would make sense to me due to ISTP having an ISFJ id (more or less). So, yes, I think there are ISTPs, especially in intimate settings that can be soft and tender. I’m actually thinking of a guy I know right now who is like that. But, he definitely ain’t no ISFJ.
Anyway, I think Obama does appear have that “cool reserve” that one might attribute to ISTP, but, I think it is more of a tertiary loop thing. I don’t get the sense (vibe, energetic) that Obama is truly like this. I just don’t feel it. It’s more of a surface level thing.
To me, he seems most at home in making a place like the White House seem very homey and not a big deal.
He’s just a guy, ya know.
I don’t fucking know.
@Blake
Yeah I noticed the “presidential stance” and the ready graces.
Also… I did think there is a kind of and I know this is so vague…. Elegance to Obama that goes beyond my istp friend’s own physical demeanor. My friend sometimes appears to be wading through water (I always attribute it to that waiting for the right moment to spring into action). Although my friend does meekly puff up when he wants to impress. He has an Fe discomfort in situations where he thinks okay here I should act this way.
About making the White House seem homey….what a weird thing to seek if you need the comfort so much. I’d stay clear of the White House with such a need for homeostasis:) Actually this image is sooo good. I think I figured out a principal I met was isfj just based on this image.
You have quite a way of writing. I really enjoy.
Yeah I agree about isfj for Obama:) He is too much up for little chit chat for istp. His younger speeches were rhetoric flowy speeches (like when he used to promote empathy). He sounded a bit like a minister. If he were ISTP, all that Ti would be there just the same when he was younger. Consistently uses appeasing language. There is a reading from his book that shows the actor in him. (I swear there is one in every isfj:)) He seems in his element emoting like that. My ISTP friend works on his look but would run away from this kind of thing haha.
Obama lacks the umph that makes you really listen to his arguments, but has the umph to make you listen to his life story.
It is really obvious in older videos of him…. The presidency has dried him up a bit and that’s all.
Also he has that full body kinetic thing going on..is that my imagination?
Got totally side tracked by a certain similarity to my friend.
I thought more about Obama and I watched the video, which I thoroughly enjoyed. However, I do not see these two men as very alike. This could just be the different expressions you will see in a type, but Seinfeld strikes me as a true ISFJ type. Always has. Obama schmoozes well with anyone when he wants to and can flow with them and adjust his demeanor and cadence. However, everything from facial structure, eye movement, and body language looks and feels somewhat different. Obama has a languid intensity. He is kind of beautiful and graceful. Seinfeld seems natural. He seems a real comfort lover. A germaphobe. Neat and tidy but in a homey comfortable kind of way. His eyes have that soft warm blanket feel. Obama is far more finished and refined. I do not think he has legitimate warmth. I don’t mean he doesn’t have warmth or a heart but it is not so close to the top, but often accessed as a tool. I know that Fe auxiliary is optional for use, but I have never met an ISFJ where this aspect was not always somewhat palpable and flowing right out of the demeanor and eyes or lurking very near even if not showing outright. I don’t get that sense with Obama. This man has a sexiness in my opinion. It is hardly much to go on, but I cannot think of ISFJs that way. I don’t mean they don’t have their own brand of sexiness, because they must. They are plentiful and reproduce in abundance. I just don’t feel that “builder” energy (Helen Fisher). I think he has tertiary Fe and that he has well honed its use. I think the man may well be the most polished ENTP I’ve ever seen. ENTPs make great attorneys and can win an argument and strangely carry authority and exude charm. ENTPs can also seem quite introverted at times. Despite this video, Obama is said to despise and shun small talk. He has been advised by those closest to him from the beginning to make an effort at this and they are still disappointed in his inability or unwillingness to engage that way. ISFJs like Seinfeld talk about the ordinary with ease and small talk very very well. They are drawn to it. From the color of his car to what the seats are made of, to if the apple is washed, and what kind of underwear Obama has. When I enter into it the time in which Obama grew up and factor in his being an only child and of bi-racial status with his known family dynamics – I imagine he intuitively knew from early childhood that he has to present himself in a certain way or the white majority will be threatened. He has probably been second guessing and calculating his presentation since early childhood.
As for ISFJ presidents, I truly believe Jimmy Carter is an ISFJ. If this is correct, I think Obama is something else. I don’t know if he is an ENTP because he seems more graceful than they usually are. However, I’ve seen some evidence of clutsyness a few times from Obama and my own ENTP can strike a polished pose and graceful style and have few major foibles when necessary. I think a constrained and necessarily structured (for the job) ENTP may pull this off. Michelle Obama said, “what happened to my husband?”after he became president because he had been way more random and unstructured. My only question is, would an ENTP (or any sane person) want the job of president?
Whether he is an ISFJ or ENTP or something else, I can’t see that he is typical of any type. My arguments won’t convince anyone, but I think any president today will only come off as a cheerleader and tone setter, unless in their commander in chief role. I think there is very little any of them can do to change a systems that is overblown with red tape and resistance everywhere you turn. We might only really get an idea of who they are after the presidency is over if they choose to engage in open civilian life and let down their guard.
To what Prax said about INFJs wanting a revolution: I often fantasize about just that kind of thing. Sometimes I think we should burn it all to the ground and start the fuck over. Only putting in the essential pieces and having to carefully consider the cost of adding anything more than necessary. It would be painful and awful, but change usually only really happens when maintaining the status quo is far too painful for the masses that any real overhaul gets done. In time, we would only be back to some repeat of a past mess, so what the heck is the point?
I know that Fe auxiliary is optional for use, but I have never met an ISFJ where this aspect was not always somewhat palpable and flowing right out of the demeanor and eyes or lurking very near even if not showing outright.
How would you know that you never met an ISFJ that was like this if you were never looking for or categorizing people that lack this quality in that way. Seems like kind of a circular thing to me. What you are saying with that statement is that you have never met an ISFJ that was like that because if you did you wouldn’t consider them an ISFJ.
Well, no wonder you have never met any ISFJs that are that way. 🙂
Keep in mind that there are variations within a type that lead to considerably different impressions than the core type. In Obama’s case, I would agree with Lunar that he is showing the signs of Ti tertiary looping with Si dominance. That means bypassed Fe and often when the auxiliary function is bypassed, a point is made to consciously show little signs of that behavior. The aux. and the tertiary function are opposites, which means that they cannot express at the same time. If one end of the opposition is being emphasized over the other, then, you will see little evidence of the side that is being diminished.
So, yes, there are ISFJs that show little Fe similar to how there are many INFJs who will go out of their back-breaking motherfucking way to show little signs of Fe so they can appear as remote and unfriendly and unswayable philosophers.
Lol Blake,
I probably have met some that did not show that Fe thing. However, I have tested a lot of people with MBTI and often predict their type (in my head for fun) and I have yet to be surprised by those who came out to be ISFJs. That is hardly solidly concrete or conclusive evidence because still the sample size is so small relative to the ISFJs in the world. Still, it isn’t simply me going around deciding who is and who isn’t based on my observations.
What about Jimmy Carter? Your thoughts?
I agree with so many of your points. I really do. I just think he is concealing with serious practice his true nature. He seems less down to earth and less detail oriented. Maybe not. Just my subjective (in this case) conjecture.
Is it typical for INFJ to not think ISFJ go far enough in their accomplishments? INFJs seem thrilled with the possibility of full-on revolution; the raw satisfaction of it. I think they are very impressed with ENFJ types on these matters because ENFJ often have this kind of raw juice that ignites the imagination, unlike a more soothing/prodding ISFJ type of political rhetoric. But maybe America is a big baby and does need a mom-type to take care of it, thus he inspired the hearts and mother-idealization of many.
I was also looking up Hillary stuff before and was wondering if maybe she was INTJ because of her geekiness and ambition but finding it so hard to make herself seem relatable/trustworthy. I thought her astrology was also funny since Scorpio ascendant people tend to be looked at with much projection or suspicion from others–and then all them squares with power probably making it worse. xD In comparison to Obama’s much more pleasant-looking chart.
I am almost afraid to peak into Trump’s and find out what a trainwreck he is mentally or emotionally. Type them all, Blake.
As for not going “far enough in their accomplishments”…maybe that’s one way to put it. I think there can be a bit of annoyance in the INFJ heart for an ISFJ leader at the helm of something big and important, being so good at appeasing and resolving the immediate while also being less able/willing to make hard and heavy sacrifices to create long-term benefits. I don’t mean Obama specifically (although the other INFJs I personally know do seem to dislike him for that reason). I notice that he inspires a lot of loyalty in the people around him – he’s good at making the people in his circle feel good and special, like he values their insights and input. And in fairness, I think he does. It just boils down to what Blake said: all that about blandness and moderation.
ENFJs are more… well, for instance, I’m pretty sure Hitler was an ENFJ, and if you see him speak, it’s easy to see why he was able to galvanize people to the extent that he did. They’re orators on another level. My boss is an ENFJ and the head of a large nonprofit, and she’s such an incredible speaker – she could probably incite rouse an army and incite people to violence if she chose. It’s a good thing she uses her ENFJ powers for good and not evil.
That actually brings me to Hillary Clinton, and thinking about how that ENFJ lady speaks was what made me realize why so people hate Clinton so much: she’s a poor speaker. She sounds so stiff and uncomfortable in her speeches, which makes people think she’s insincere. I don’t think she necessarily is (although I do think she hates campaigning). But she definitely gives off that weird alien vibe that Blake has mentioned in reference to INTJs. So yes, I think she’s an INTJ too.
I wanna say Donald Trump is an ESTP. An ESTP with an ego raging unchecked.
Agree on the NTJ typing for Hillary….but I’m curious to know why you think she’s an introvert instead of extrovert, Prax?
Her advisers have pretty much come out and said that Hillary’s got no Fe. Well, they obviously didn’t use Myers-Briggs terminology, but they used the definition nearly verbatim..”unable to express/project herself emotionally.”
I see politics, especially something as high profile as a presidential campaign to be verrrrrrrry heavy on extroverted energy. As an introvert, I’d think that those who possessed Fe towards the top of the stack could get by because the extroverted energy that politicking thrives on is people-oriented. So, not being an Fe user, I’d think it’s more likely for Hillary to be an ENTJ. I see INTJs gravitating more towards business (material-oriented rather than people oriented).
Wanna hear your reasoning, though.
@Lml519
Neither INTJ or ENTJ are good Fe users, but I think her lack of ease with public presentation despite 30+ years of working at it and achieving the highest ranks through a lot of grit and people reluctantly accepting her competence makes her more introvert than extrovert. lol She has said a lot of times she doesn’t enjoy the campaigning and public speaking part and just more wants to be able to get to work. I am pretty sure she is gritting her teeth the whole time trying to look as personable as she can, but she probably believes the endgoal will be worth it.
From my understanding, ENTJ will usually have more natural ease with just the “get things done, say it as it should be said” part due to Te dominance. They have a natural authority against people, I’d say. And contrary to what you believe, I think ENTJs would rather prefer the business world because it’s easier to reap the rewards of cause-effect mindset that is natural to them. More purely political career is a bit more slow for such effective reapings, especially if you are fighting for more stereotypically progressive ideals. I think an ENTJ would have had either a much easier time with this crafting of public persona and exercising their authority, or would have just stuck to business/money-making world where no one cares too much about being personable as long as they get great results.
INTJ, I think are generally more background workers, but their craving/assumption of power (or money) is more related to them becoming frustrated at incompetence surrounding them. They want the power to go in and fix what they see is wrong or protect themselves from the wrongs. I think that’s more Ni-dom with Te-aux as their tool. I think that more fits Hillary’s career. She has a lot of insular thinkings (this is wrong with the world, if only these strings are pulled, things will lead in this direction, etc) which are probably hard for her to effectively communicate (I think in private she is quite the dork/geek), but she will use her skills as much as she can to achieve enough power to get her vision realized, even if it’s incremental. And don’t get INTJs wrong, they do often care about the overall state of the world and its people from a humanistic/social systems point of view, it’s just that trying to be personable in order to build “rapport” to gain influence is probably their greatest hurdle.
I hope that makes sense!
It does. Thank you! 😀
Prax,
About Hillary Clinton, what do you think about ESTJ as a possibility for her?
I would bet he’s ESTP.
It’s interesting to read how so many people process other people’s behavior.
I enjoyed the astrology bit.
I actually think Michelle Obama is the most difficult to type. She appears to be the most shielded. I would almost want to say she’s an ENTJ. They are the most introverted of the extroverts with a talent for matching people’s aptitude with the correct job.
Obama is so INFJ. The part that I like most about him as president is that it is so obvious he doesn’t even want the job. He’s really trying to help people who’ve never had a voice. The majority has been threatened by him. It’s a natural animal instinct to not like him. I thinks he’s super careful and considerate of all people.
Trump is emotionally genius and not dumb by any means. He probably is of the type that believes the world will get swallowed up by the sun anyway, so what’s the point in saving the planet. And he has game theory down! He’s impressive, even if you can’t stand him. I say total ESTP.
Melania is probably an ISTP.
Bernie Sanders probably another INFJ, but his conviction is acceptable. He is white and male. In the words of Louis CK “How many advantages can one person hold?” Haha
Last note for all you astrology, new age believers out there (or is you are super curious about out of the box patterns like I am) check out Human Design.
Trump is considered a “Manifestor” in that system of thought.
Manifestors are really rare and are people who possess an energy designed to carve new paths.
Michelle Obama is also a manifestor.
Obama shares the same type as JFK. He’s considered a Projector. His energy is more about absorbing others and showing them who they are…
Interesting stuff.
@Prax
You are into charts too? Cool.
She has that higher than the rest of them aura to her. Also higher than the present moment vibe. People seem to prey on her emotional affect me wants to protect her in such times almost. She has a taste for power that she clearly satiates quite well. She is always described as very competent. She has to have Te in top two positions for sure.
Yes, astrology was one of my highschool hobbies that I continue to look into forever.
I get fed on the correlations and correspondences between signs, elements, planets, etc. That it weaves a grand web and you can “lift” meaning from all of it in one big picture is what makes it so tempting a study. (Also, it’s good for creating fictional characters haha)
MBTI is another web that I more recently am looking at, so makes everything tastier.
That Blake is attempting to marry the two systems makes this one of the more interesting sites when it comes to the topic.
@Prax
Cool:)
@Blake
Don’t jump off a cliff if I ask a question:) like no urgent answers here at all:)
I think I know why my istp friend resembles Obama the isfj so much.
I watched the video of Obama with Seinfeld and he comes off engaging and somewhat …hmmm taciturn, yes I think that is the word, alternating between an almost hint of reluctance and “a rise to the occasion”. Also he is charismatic so when he says he likes guacamole you think yeah cool, interesting. Which really ain’t that interesting. He also clearly cares about “cool”.
Okay so it reminded me of my istp friend who is kind of like a patriarch/mama’s boy. My friend does both:) He sometimes commands the room With a natural lack of self consciousness and likable transparency, comfortable in his skin. He is the type of istp who has always been given his freedom and space I get the sense. He is his mama’s everything.
I got to thinking that maybe the reason my friend reminds me of Obama is that the id of the istp is Si id?????? Does this explain why istps sometimes appear to just seek comfort until some key moment where they will then act. Like Si si si SE Si Si si SE. Could also explain why sometimes my friend appears to say banal stuff even though I know There is a lot more than meets the eye.
Maybe that is why I got so distracted.
I got to thinking that maybe the reason my friend reminds me of Obama is that the id of the istp is Si id?????? Does this explain why istps sometimes appear to just seek comfort until some key moment where they will then act. Like Si si si SE Si Si si SE. Could also explain why sometimes my friend appears to say banal stuff even though I know There is a lot more than meets the eye.
Here’s the problem with reasoning on a type publicly (here) based on an appeal to your (supposed) ISTP friend…Neither I nor anyone else knows this person.
So, it is fruitless from a comment perspective to write a comment referencing someone that you say is x type and comparing a public personage such as Obama to them. We would have no way of making our own judgment on this. In other words, there is no way to tell if you are more or less on point. We don’t know if we can agree with you or not.
I mean, maybe it would turn out upon seeing your ISTP friend that I wouldn’t think he was an ISTP and therefore your comparisons of him to Obama to justify Obama’s ISTPness would be flawed (at least from my point-of-view) or yes it could turn out that your friend is an ISTP and he reminds you of Obama, but, he doesn’t remind me of Obama. That is another lack of consensus.
And there is also the crossover aspect between types. Yes, some ISTPs resemble ISFJ and vice-versa. I have noted this especially in the similarity between INFJ and ISFP and they share the same relationship as ISTP to ISFJ. Mathematically speaking, you could say that INFJ is to ISFP as ISTP is to ISFJ.
So, all this stuff needs to be taken into account.
@ Blake
Yeah about my friend, for all its worth he took the test, got intp, disagreed, read the 8 functions, thought about it and chose istp, which he is by my lights as well.
But yeah . Shoot.
This is a really great piece. The only thing that bugs me is that Obama was not afraid to voice his disapproval at the way foreign countries live, voicing concerns for human rights every chance he gets. Even as a lame duck President he is using all of his power to enact progressive change; he clearly has a vision for how the world should be. There are so many examples of his flagrant idealism, too many to recount.
Also, he is so at ease with speaking. I have a hard time seeing him as an introvert. Although I will have to think about that more.
For me the type that makes most sense is ENFJ. A more introverted extrovert. Very strong Fe. Idealist at heart but they are the least idealist out of Enfp, infp and infj.
Hi, PLEASE type Stephen King. I know he’s an INXX, but other than that I can’t peg him. I have my suspicions he’s INFJ. Thanks.
I know this question if for Blake and I will be interested in his take too. I believe Stephen King is an INTJ myself.
Yes, I think King is an INTJ. I first saw him as an ISTJ (long time ago), so, I think he definitely has the Te aux. thing going. INFJ would be out of the question to me, but, I would be curious as to why Elizabeth thinks he might be an INFJ.
I am rolling on the floor at the idea that Obama is an ISFJ!!
HAHA!!!! Dude either you suck at typing, or you have an awesome sense of humor.
Cheers, buddy.
Or I’m good at typing AND have an awesome sense of humor, but, you’re an idiot. Why wasn’t that listed as an option?
@Rita
I remember you writing that something seems off about his typing way back when.
I agree with you about:
1. Obama feels different to Seinfeld in that video
2. The eye movements etc seem quite different.
At one point Obama turns sideways away from Seinfeld with his arms crossed, kind of protectively or something. Not as open as Seinfeld. Also when Seinfeld passes him a ball, Obama just seems to hold it rather than play with it in equal amount.
Have you seen the videos of Obama younger? I would be curious what you think. There is one of him reading from a book that is kind of interesting. Am gonna rewatch it lol.
I wish I knew some entps in real life. You being married to one, I do find it very interesting you see a resemblance of some kind:)
Do entps hate small talk?
Entps would be less boring though no? I don’t find Obama completely boring but kinda.
I believe ENTPs do hate small talk as a rule. Mine can almost be embarrassing when he is not interested in what others are saying, he has a hard time feigning interest. I kind of find it refreshing because he does not spend much time pretending and will cut the conversation short or engage in something else. 🙂 I had an ENTP boss (that’s what he said he was anyway) and he was absolutely rude at meetings (that he had called) by looking at his phone when it was time for others to talk.
Lunar, my husband is not much like Obama in presentation. He is rarely so polite or soothing. However, when it is important and for short periods, he can be extremely charming and soothing to others. It just takes a lot of energy for him and is not his most natural or reflexive way of being. I am only noting some inexplicable feel I get from Obama and not making any real comparison to the closest ENTP in my life. I will say that my former boss was so incredibly gifted at public speaking and could charm and schmooze with the best.
@Rita
I totally have a sense like you of sexy or cool that is different than for expressive isfjs I can think of. Obama enjoys showing off cool and simultaneously has more contained aura than a very expressive isfj. A more masculine but clear-cut boy contours. And then amped up patriarch stuff as well.
Personally, I find Obama kind of fascinating in his presentation. I get the impression of someone who struggles to communicate immediately about the future, but who definitely has some ability for tactical deliberation. All the White House pics convey to me someone that just wants the info, wants the arguments, then let him retreat to think it over. He seems engaged in the info gathering, kind of like a general that wants the layout of the battlefield. But then it is like a musing. Just my impression. Ahhhh I don’t actually how it is one gets impressions so weird.
@Rita
I find him so atypical too:)
I forgot to consider entp among the hybrid types…thinking/feeling. Intriguing.
@Rita
Am having trouble picturing Ne dominance….he seems to try always to be on point and finish his points (which I know it makes sense for a president). Then sometimes something gets lost or goes kind of long. But it doesn’t have an Ne feel, just something else.
@Rita
An interview that shows Obama at times pushing his arguments. What do you think? This is what I see as his istp coloring. Kind of tactical, even appears to have a picture in his mind that makes him struggle to articulate. But he senses where he is going.
https://charlierose.com/videos/26938
@Rita
There is a q&a at the end of his book reading (From the vault/Obama). It is so interesting to watch him. He seems to not be able to not go abstract when answering questions. Very Ti in that sense. He seems to kind of know an answer but to struggle with the speech. I have no idea what it means. I still get a kind of istp (unusual istp) vibe here too. I struggle to see the zest of Ne. But maybe Ne isn’t always so sparkly. “The notion that…” Is so telltale with this guy. He’s already using that in his book reading session. Is that how an entp would string words and be playing with a thought rather than embodying the thought? At times he sort of uses over fancy language.
He has some entp-ish traits… Seems to like the sound of words sometimes. His reading from his book had a bit of the air of intellectual theater. His take on growing up has somewhat of an anthropological air versus strictly personal. Innate to Obama’s personality is the Ti abstraction. He has charm.
I think I might see what you are seeing Rita.
Lunar: “I struggle to see the zest of Ne. But maybe Ne isn’t always so sparkly.”
I will have to look at the video in its entirety later. However, I think the weight of the constant scrutiny 24/7 talking head “news” cycles, cameras in the face from the moment you step out the door, a speech to deliver here, a hand to shake there, a family to raise, ongoing military action, world economic/ diplomatic interdependency, making “nice” with members from the other branches of government to move through any envisioned plan, advisors, briefs to read, condolences to send, dinners, and fund raising would be an unimaginable weight to bear. I think a sparkle of Ne or any other kind would be hard to continuously muster unless you are just a myopic idiot. Not to mention the weight of being the first African American president who was born at a time when some parts of the country still had separate facilities. It seems that would take the fire out of the most fire-branded optimist in the world. Unless you’re a Trump who does whatever he wants instinctively and reactively and believes any publicity is good. If you have any kind of handle on things and take seriously your position, it would be daunting.
Blake mentions Thomas Jefferson as an INFJ and I wholeheartedly agree. He was no doubt a most exceptional and brilliant example of one too. However, I think even Thomas Jefferson may struggle in this current governmental system and be a lot less effectual than he was as an integral leader of a new government during and after a revolution. No telephones, email, text messages, nukes, or instant media. When he wrote something, it would take mail delivered by horses and town criers and newspapers to dispense the information. There would also be a delayed response from the countries then more homogenous citizens.
He may not be an ENTP, but I don’t believe he is an ISFJ. Not because I think ISFJs are dumb as someone supposed many people assume. I think Jimmy Carter is an ISFJ, and Mother Teresa and the current Pope. I think they are or were all very smart people. I just think Obama is something else. I see Ti over Fe and I believe he is an intuitive of some sort, so that is how I come to ENTP.
I meant “country’s.”
@Rita
Yes. Actually, being too Ne in public appearances could cause political damage. I get the impression that Ti is high up as well or VERY heavily used.
……
In the video here, a lady (she is kind of funny) interviews Obama with amped Fe. He replies with what looks like Ti (he doesn’t match what she throws him in a sense).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx_XS4s6aA4
………
Here he is being very natural, what appears to be him highly authentic, starting at time marker 2:08.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/obama-his-game-honest-13-has-trouble-bunkers/
It’s that “cool/hip” vibe he gives off. Looks like Se or Ti to me but maybe it isn’t. In any case it is characteristic of who Obama is because he is lovin it. This is real. He would dig being indisputably the fastest person ever.
There is an essence in this man that is regal and almost singularly majestic. Somehow he is above the fray even when he is in it. Above and apart even when involved.
Now, ISFJs are often very elegant and noble, there seems to be an earthiness and connected involvement. Examples: Pope Francis washing feet, Mother Teresa living among the untouchables in India offering hands on aid and service, Jimmy Carter returning home to run the family farm after the death of his father although he had other plans and goals and later his work and leadership with Habitat for Humanity International. Even Salieri writing Mozart’s dictation. A sense of honor in service and obligation these people all display and embody with seemingly tireless tenacity. They connect and bring some intimacy through connection. They are dutiful workers.
Obama seems more elitist than these, despite his populist message. The fact that he does not connect well with others has been a constant complaint of those in close contact with him. He does connect sometimes in speech or a professor’s lectern. He taughy law for 10 years.
If he is not an ENTP, I would maybe say he is an INFJ whose idealism has been frustrated by all the heavily laden details, which he claims to hate and keeps people around who are better with them. As for all the Si people are picking up, I think that is the result of rehearsal and speech writers, and the power of repetition. I think Si would play a heavy role in how he comes across if he does not want to make a misstep. I see perfectionism more than authenticity in this man.
I won’t argue that the end result looks a lot like an ISFJ. Blake is absolutely right. For all that, I think he’s not. Oh, one more thing, I think I remember something about a letter from his school days suggesting he would one day be president. Does that ring a bell with anyone else? That may show evidence of singleminded Ni. Maybe.
There is an essence in this man that is regal and almost singularly majestic. Somehow he is above the fray even when he is in it. Above and apart even when involved.
Yes, that would be his Leo sun, which highly departs from the ISFJ type.
Also, please note that Obama is an Aquarius rising, which mimics the ISTP dominant function.
Basically, yes, Obama has Leo and Aquarius placements in his chart that depart from ISFJ type, which would be more akin to first half of Virgo rising, Cancer Sun, and first half of Pisces Moon/Scorpio Moon.
Obama basically has astrological placements that mimic the ENTJ personality projection, the ISTP temperament setting, and the ISTJ/INTJ id function.
In net effect, there is a lot of Ti in his astrological chart (Aquarius, first half of Gemini, where his Moon is) and Leo, which correlates to introverted intuition.
So, we see an Ni-Ti overlay in Obama’s astrological chart. But, it is overlaid on an ISFJ temperament. And so, this will incline him to be a very Ni and Ti type of ISFJ. Which I think is what people are seeing in him.
But, I see his underlying ISFJ temperament.
@Blake,Rita
There is something completely unreadable about Obama……I cannot make it add up…..these things it’s like you see it or you dont. With Obama I see too many different vibes.
There is an undeniable mental/verbal agility. But that isn’t what we get to see….we see him seemingly droning and almost struggling. Then here and there he is quite sharp and combative. Elsewhere he is fresh like a sensor.
Blake, yes he has a Ti Ni look. He has actually an expression you see on intjs sometimes (some intjs). I have seen the same expression on Jon Stewart whose type I do not know but who does not seem intj. You know the expression with raised eyebrows slightly down open mouth anyone know?
Dang Obama is really really hard to read.
Peace out…..
Blake,
First off, thank you for taking the time to explain your analysis and combine it with what I see in him. I cannot argue with that because I am a complete novice when it comes to astrology, from the concrete facts of a chart to the “implied positions” in MBTI. I do appreciate the way you combine systems though. It is very layered and elegant. I combine systems too when making modifications to one’s type, but they are from a different framework than astrology.
I like this: “So, we see an Ni-Ti overlay in Obama’s astrological chart. But, it is overlaid on an ISFJ temperament. And so, this will incline him to be a very Ni and Ti type of ISFJ. Which I think is what people are seeing in him.”
And particularly your mention of “ISTP temperature setting.”
I just appreciate multi-layered thinkers. Ti is so freaking hot! LOL I’m not flirting, but your mind is sexy. Note: I am accustomed to saying I’m not flirting because I was a slow learner about how to speak to men (growing up with a mom only), that I have often been surprised that men thought I was coming on to them. Not that you would think that, but clarity is best!
For the record, I was never such an idiot that I told males their brains or anything else was sexy and then turned around surprised that they thought I was flirting. I’ve never been that clueless. It is just that I figure people here would understand that the working of one’s mind can be sexy like a well performing car that operates smoothly and takes corners well. Face palming and red cheeked for over explaining, but …..
Well, sometimes being all atoms or data like Prax mentioned would be an advantage in that it would take away the ridiculous human/gender/self consciousness and awkwardness of caring about anything. Silly consciousness in our superficial flesh suits. To be human…. Both lovely and miserable. 🙂 🙁
@Rita
you know ISTP explains sexy
I don’t know if an ISTP can be this well rounded but I find that it fits well. There are interviews of him young where the topic is relatively light and he still turns on the Ti. Like he just does it all the time for any topic. Unless he is in a joking mood.
Dominant Ti can be hard to listen to sometimes. It can be inarticulate even though it is a function that can result in great clarity.
Or ISTP-ish isfj
ISFJ does have an Ti tert, don’t forget!
Maybe like “nuanced explanation” Ti backed with a humble “common sense, relatable” Si.
Maybe that is where you are seeing all the Ti, but are forgetting what it’s powered by?
He is definitely a “cool” kind of president, but he also comes off as warm and nurturing. I think ISTP tend to have a harder time displaying that correctly (Fe inferior — sincere but often rude/inept). Obama seems to be a little too good at the “disarming” aspects of Fe to be ISTP.
Yeah I know it doesn’t make sense. He would be soooo well rounded if istp. Beyond what you’d expect.
@Prax
He is just endlessly fascinating:)
Here, he shows Fe touchiness. There is a side to Obama that is just authentic that pops through here and there. Here it is like he was personally offended by Cooper. I think Obama has a part of him that turns into a fighter but actually kind of hates “non good-will” arguing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TYYV0Ecx29k
@Prax
He comes off nurturing but I have seen that he is also quite combative. In the video below you can see Jon Stewart leaning backwards here…just letting him have his point…. Jon Stewart even makes a joke about what happened there the mood changed something like that. You almost get a sense of inferior Fe. Not like some underlying aura, no more grippy gluelike viscous. Jon Stewart feels the need to ask “am I being unfair?” But then Obama kind of stays “cool” looking. I think if he didn’t look so cool he might look overly sensitive.
He does not give off just one mothering air by any means. It is just hard to piece the whole picture.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L88H2HWEXrw
Lunar,
ISTP seems highly unlikely as Obama’s type. He has too much nuance in his long pontifications. ISTP’s have a nuance too, but it is usually with a well aimed or to the point articulation or sometimes a cutting observation in between silences. They aren’t usually people who sit around talking their heads off, are they? Your nuance at combining flavorings of types is appreciated though. Blake does some of this and I have done so a lot myself. It adds a little spice to a person that helps to include other parts when all is not consistent within one main type.
Maybe like Freud said, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” Blake is right about the effect of Obama’s presidency has been very ISFJ-like. I am just bothered because there seems a disconnect between this presentation and his true tendencies and real reasoning processes. It is just a sense that he is quite other than what he appears. Blake covers that well with the chameleon nature of Fe, but for me it feels off that his type is an ISFJ. His “energy” seems quite different than that. That sounds lame and hippie trippy and new agey, which I hate, but nevertheless that is what it really boils down to for me.
I appreciate Blake’s original take and cogent analysis, even though in the end I disagree.
@Rita
I know lol I definitely know istp makes no sense whatsoever. I can’t argue about that at all. It makes NO SENSE!!!
So I dug up a few things about him. When he was a prof, he wrote crazy exams with hypothetical out there scenarios (you can find them online), inserting humor etc. he taught in a way similar to how he makes decisions in the White House. He had students debating pros and cons. It was very discussion based. Similarly in the White House he puts people through the wringer with their arguments, in his own words.
One ex student was quoted as saying Obama used to be way more fun to listen to and just talks beneath his own level now.
Anyhow…..it is really nice to come across such a confusing specimen.
@Rita
am rewatching From the Vault Obama and uh….
I got very strong INTP likeness vibe suddenly like someone who INTELLECTUALIZES feeling and is “formally smooth” (god that intro). So INTP or ENTP (or ISTP). His book is an intellectual spiritual search? 2 of these would surprise me so maybe ENTP. But suddenly I am open to just receiving impressions and not judging any of them till it all makes sense. Even if I have to consider INTP! Ahh.
I am married to INTP. Something happened like what happened with you Rita. A certain whiff. Help me:)
It’s like I finally saw the real dork lol.:):)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JlqDnoqlo
35:07 onward… “it wasn’t articulated in my mind at the time..”
such strong Ti precision of speech
although the content is a search for self. GASP. that could be isfj lol
@Rita
I have a friend who has so many of the mannerisms of Obama. Blake helped me to realize that perhaps my friend is actually an isfj he really helped me learn something here like man I am so glad.
What is amazing about it to me is that the functions themselves don’t help me here. My friend does not like to just lavish his Fe. And looks like a thinking sensor. And to me he is really good looking. But I tell you one thing…..people like him and recount the conversations with my friend (they tease him too cuz he is hilarious). This is word for word what happens with people who speak to Obama in the White House including the aides who are used to him. I read this in a (boring) book about them. So one word Charisma.
Another thing….the ability to do a bunch of clever moves that nobody can clearly summarize. I realize that this is a way that isfj operates. A kind of crafty chess that makes most sense to them. Especially in a step by step manner as things arise.
So I can’t say for sure that Obama is isfj or not, but I think some kind of fog got lifted in my mind as to the versatility of the isfj type. An isfj who does not want to let people into their world will look like a sensing thinker who is calculating and somehow warm. Male isfjs may learn to do that especially. I don’t know if that is Obama but I think it may well be.
Also he is kinetic. I still stand by his kinetic thing. Relaxed with body awareness.
He won but then really needed to acknowledge Clinton and reach out to her.
Gosh I think when there is this video of him eyeing Clinton like mad it was Fe not Se or Ne. The functions don’t help me.
I have a bunch of friends I had typed as istps. They are all good kids who are conservative in effort etc. But my friend who resembles Obama is a tad warmer, and I suppose more profoundly conservative. He is very well rounded and developed.
I am suddenly very impressed.
My only confusion is that Obama is really decent in crisis mode. He is described as remaining very level-headed while everyone is freaking out. It seems counterintuitive for an Isfj. But anyone that can be president is either pathological or well developed I would think.
His use of Ti is also really heavy.
So I am back to between isfj (or Istp).
Well Obama is an interesting person and he stretches the stereotype of any type considerably to find a good fit. Blake’s explanation makes good sense if you are combining MBTI and Astrology, which of course his site is all about. So I’m content with his explanation. I’m not the one to ask when modifications need to be made with astrology though. I knew for sure that I was detecting quite a lot of Ti and felt some indicators of intuition and an above and beyond regal quality not common with the ISFJ. Blake explained this quite well and astrology is just not a domain I can claim sufficient knowledge about. I know a little, but not enough to do that well. I don’t care what he is called as long as what I KNOW I see is somehow covered. The subject was fleshed out quite thoroughly enough for me.
Are you still doubting?
Well Lunar,
He is “an interesting specimen” indeed. Maybe particularly so because he is a politician who must win people to his side to be at all successful in getting to the position of president, so seeing the raw unvarnished person and their natural cognitive processes may be harder to detect than in the average famous person.
To keep it extremely simple though, does it help to consider the Fe chameleon trait? So, if you are down to a decision between ISTP and ISFJ when noting his “charisma” and changeable display, it may be the choice for ISFJ becomes easier. How about Blake’s mention of an “ISTP temperature setting” in his ISFJ personality? Does that cover it? Or are you still undecided?
@Rita
Not actually doubting isfj. More like not understanding Obama and the various descriptions of him. Let this be the day though that I put this thing to rest.
@Anybody
If you FORGET his public persona for a moment.
I remember reading that his book did not come naturally to him. He practiced it at great length. He sounds very methodical. His answers to questions after the book reading are also so bizarrely slippery which is the trait of any spin master.
He has always seemed like an outsider with great ambition (but he is foreign too, he has the kind of upbringing that is really just not your typical one). Students in college said he was somehow very separate from everyone. His colleagues where he taught say that he somehow remained an outsider. He was charming, a beloved teacher of smart students who pushed them, etc, but somehow his own man, not really mingling with the rest like the rest.
And he is the kind of person that muses over decisions. Everyone who works with him says that in the final moment, he is off somewhere by himself and takes that decision without others (honestly, you can get that aura almost from all the photographs). He is described as being sooooo introverted. He hosted a party where he basically shook all hands, then sat in a chair to watch sports and never budged from his chair.
From the book I read, the one person who seems to really be able to shake him is his wife….that is his biggest vulnerability.
This is fascinating to think about::::
a)public persona
versus
b)how he is described by the people inside the white house who work with him
A pretty big mismatch wouldn’t you say.
From the nonpublic persona, the “reported persona” if you will, you get the impression of someone competitive, very aloof, independent, very ponderous, a true thinker type who muses in his head, knows his stuff, and, whose humor bites.
But then you see his public persona and it’s like something else.
This is really weird.
Oh…. and the one thing that to me does not sound conservative is pushing health care through. Honestly, in the climate of this country, that ain’t conservative.
So yeah. Who the hell is this guy.
Almost get intj aura in his more private version. But you don’t see that in the public persona, you just see hip, difficulty communicating, evasive, warmth. Is there a way for Ni to operate invisibly lol?
This post is great. It’s so obvious for me that he’s an introvert. I can sense his unnaturally extrovert when speak in public behavior that I do experience myself as an INFJ. And no, like you say he’s not an NF, there are too much inconsistencies between what he says and what he really does.
Introvert, Judging, not NF… The only different option left is INTJ but I doubt that INTJ can play people-friendly for more than 3 hours a day which will prevent him from being this popular.
So probably an ISFJ.
Sanjay Gupta….he has mannerisms similar to Obama. Although he doesn’t belabor his talking as much.
If I didn’t know how popular this blog was, I would think that you were an absolute moron for writing this article. It makes no damn sense and is very poorly articulated.
If I didn’t know how popular this blog was, I would think that you were an absolute moron for writing this article.
I think you have me confused with yourself. What the fuck does the popularity of something have to do with whether it is moronic or not?
It makes no damn sense and is very poorly articulated.
Yeah, kinda like your comment Miss Idiot.
Brilliant!
I came across this illogical piece of “analysis” by accident through a Google search. I run a fairly popular Myers Briggs Blog on Tumblr so as much as I’m capable of refuting each of OP’s points I realize it will fall on very deaf ears. This person isn’t open to re-analyzing his thoughts and considering the very valid points others have made. This person has demonstrated his or her own ridiculous political bias in typing the President. This person claims that Obama is all rhetoric and no talk, a very popular republican political position that half the country if not more disagree with and uses that baseless opinion to type a person. I understand not liking people but don’t type people based on your dislike. Try really hard to be objective. Except the author this post can’t even respond to non-threatening opposition without sounding like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum so that’s not possible. Btw, I don’t like you. You’re too long winded. Don’t get to the point. And can’t write for shit. I would attempt to type you but I’m mature enough as a Myers Briggs writer to know not to type those I don’t like.
What is the name of your Tumblr site if I may so gently ask?
Well after reading this, I must say, you actually made an arguement for his type being an INFJ.
I’m an INTP and most of what he says makes total sense to me, because what he does stand for is data. Scientific facts. I’m a scientist, so I never even imagined that people couldn’t understand his logic and political savvyness. When he isn’t sure, you can hear it. I also think his racial ethnicity has been a huge factor in his ability or maybe, better inability, to express what he really stands for. He knows it’s not just about him and he tries to find middle grounds. He’s a lot like Martin Luther King Jr. in many ways.
Anyhow, interesting perspectives. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and outlining your logic. Fun read.
🙂