OK, this is going to be a doozy, this Ti id of INTJ. Want to know why? Well, introverted thinking in itself is not very amenable to descriptive language, the sort of language that describes the qualities of things or persons – you know – adjectives.
No, Ti in language is mostly referencing the concept known as the noun, so, it lies opposite to Fe descriptiveness in language and the delimiting of the qualitative.
So, it is difficult to describe the Ti function. Add this Ti to the totally subjective nature of the id position and it becomes quite hard to grasp, though, there are certain vibes and tones that describe this quality. I’ll be sprinkling some of those images and videos throughout this article (or future ones in same vein).
If I had to describe Ti in a word it would be the quality of “clearness” or perhaps, “absence” in some way as least as far as emotional contents go, and this is the function of the id in many ways, as a place of emotional contents. So, Ti here is difficult from that point-of-view. It represents more of a state of being than an actual felt emotion. The state of freedom, or the state of a collective thought entity such as duality, cubism, collectivism, individuality, free market capitalism, and so on. These are lived in and inhabited things to an INTJ in a very immediate sense. INTJs can live in an idea.
What is id function briefly?
- A collector or container of contents.
- A starting point, a foundation position, all rests on it.
- The idea of “soul”.
- One’s emotional nature
- The way one feels to oneself, deep inside.
- A room one lives in
- Direction of disintegration. How ones tends to breakdown. Schizophrenia, in this case.
So, what is the “soul” image for this Ti id?
It is the cat or feline soul.
Cat Soul
So, at the most basic and simplistic level the best way to understand the INTJ way of experiencing themselves is similar to a cat. The cat image is approaching an ideal of simplicity in understanding them deep within, in a foundational sense.
Meditate on the cat nature. That is your best bet. Cats are independent, water-resistant (which means emotionally or feeling resistant metaphorically), puzzling, mysterious, difficult to understand where they are coming from, and you either get it or you don’t. You are either a cat person or you are not. Simple as that. To try to explain the virtues of cats to people that don’t already understand them is difficult.
Cats are not affectionate…but, they can be if you know how to deal with them. But, they are definitely not like dogs in their indiscriminateness of slobbering affection. And INTJs, similarly, due to this Ti id thing are not going to be coming over to you and licking you or reacting at all really just because you decided to walk in the door to come back home to them, assuming that you live with them in the first place, which is highly unlikely. But, even if you do, you don’t. Take my meaning.
Introverted Thinking as a Form of Disintegration in INTJ type
So, I mentioned in the id definition that the function that lies in this position tends to be the function that we will disintegrate or come unraveled with in its characteristic fashion. Well, in the INTJ type, this unraveling and disintegration would be through Ti and if you can kind of feel that out, that basically means schizophrenic breakdown. All INTJs are the most schizotypal of all types. They have the two functions very strong that most indicate this – Ti id with Ni dominance. That is the combination par excellence of “split mind”, which is what schizophrenia literally translates to.
Given that schizophrenia is called the “king of the mental disorders” by psychiatry/psychology, meaning that it is the most debilitating form of pathology that can occur in the psyche, I think it is of particular importance to flesh out some of the themes of this position and in the terminology of the Myers-Briggs/Jungian typology system, attempt to come to a closer understanding of the sort of spectrum that INTJs fall along and are prone to. This doesn’t mean that every INTJ is going to become full-blown schizophrenic in the pathological sense, but, it means that many INTJs have schizotypal characteristics that fall somewhere along this spectrum.
Just like narcissism, I don’t think that all the traits of it are negative and the same goes here. Some of the positive traits of INTJ’s schizotypal psychic structure are similar to many INFJs, who are also prone to schizotypal breakdown, but in them, it is mixed more with affective disordering due to them having Fi id with Ni dominance. INTJ can break way before they bend. So, onto a lovely example of this phenomenon.
Mr. Man
If anyone knows the popular and apocryphal story of the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, you will know that in general he was the one that said, “God is dead”, that we must become supermen in the absence of said god, and in order to do this we must possess inhuman strength of will such that we become like gods in our ability to will what we will. Well, suffice to say, Nietzsche spend most of his adult life in one state of isolation or another, spending a lot of time writing and writing about concepts such as “the will to power”, “the superman”, and the true origins of human morality, in particular, the appearance on the scene of the human stage of a little thing called, “love”. He basically felt that love had arisen out of the Jewish hatred of the masters of the world that reigned pretty much supreme before the advent of Christianity, those terrible lions who ravaged the lambs and the meek of the world, and as such that the Christianization of the world had been a very anti-natural occurrence that has caused effeminacy and decadence to be spread to whatever societies and civilizations had contracted the spread of this particular religious doctrine, which in the time he was writing (mid to late 1800s) meant he was talking about much of the European civilization that he was a direct participant in.
So, the apocryphal story is that Nietzsche was this hard-as-nails philosopher that really lived with these ideas that he was writing about and also attempting to live them out in the external world as much as an introverted intuitive like himself could muster. He advised against the temptation to pity that Christianity made into a desirable trait of human conduct. He said that in order to be a superman one had to live above humankind the way it was structured at present, that in short order, one must become more than one is, one must experience humanity at a great height, above the unbearably tragic nature of human history hitherto, and that a man of power must learn to be immune to the cries of human misery, and even to be able to inflict great suffering themselves without the temptation to pity and mercy. Because, basically, that temptation to pity others (or oneself) is an invitation to the weakening of the will, and to Nietzsche this was the greatest problem in civilization, this slackening and weakening of the will in the name of sympathy for the weak and downtrodden.
And so one fine day while walking through the streets of the city where he lived he observed a man beating a horse that had fallen in the street. And this scene was the last thing Nietzsche saw before he cried out, threw his arms around the fallen horse’s neck to prevent it from being struck any further by the horseman, and basically had a complete and total breakdown from which he never recovered. In short, Nietzsche broke all at once in his moment of bending that had come after many years of his continued advocacy of being free from the temptation to pity.
No one knows for sure what happened to Nietzsche or whether this story is even true. What is true is that he spent the next eleven years of his life in a state of catatonic breakdown in which he was no longer there anymore, yet was – in body at least. He needed to be taken care in all his most basic needs from that day forth until the day of his death approximately eleven years following this date.
And it is this story that is one of the most moving stories I can think of in any dramatic, mythological, or real-life tale, this story of how Nietzsche the great philosopher and man who heralded the superman, the next phase in humanity, collapsed in a moment of overwhelming empathy for a defenseless and abused animal in the streets of his town. It moves me to the point of weeping. And the strange thing is – I don’t really know why.
Why this man? Why this story out of all the potential stories that one could be moved by? How can one feel so much for this man who emphasized so strongly and vigorously the warning against feeling for the suffering souls of the world?
I don’t know. All I know is that it does move me out of my depths to think of this great man who so wanted to save man in some new way, and he couldn’t bear the implications of his own answer to this problem. And yet, he went on for so long in pursuance of his ideal and never once strayed from it, until he could go on no longer. I don’t know, there is something extremely awe-inspiring about that to me. And supremely moving. Because in the end, all that emotion was there in some way. And it came out in a torrential flood that broke this great man’s mind to fucking smithereens. And to me it is almost the very definition of tragedy.
But, whatever, I don’t know that this is bringing us any closer to understanding this Ti id of INTJs. However, I do know, if one has ever become intimately familiar with the works of Mr. Friedrich Nietzsche, if one has ever really seen and experienced the man behind these works, if one has seen the superhuman and soul-destroying endurance it takes to maintain this kind of attitude in the wake of being embodied in a human form, it is something that may compel your absolute sympathy like no other thing can.
Well, I really can’t say enough good things about Nietzsche. I don’t even consider myself worthy to the task. All I can say is that I love this man and that he rules so fucking hard that it is difficult to even fathom or comprehend.
So, this is a little flavor of the Ti id. It is to experience man from a great height, after the fact, as Nietzsche said, as something that must be overcome. And we must overcome this fact of man in ourselves. Because, you know, we got a long way to go brothers and sisters. And some of our kind can see the path we need to take to our glory. Some of our kind have flown too close to the sun, too far away from human sympathy to ever return again to the madding crowd. They have flown on the wings of vision and aspiration. They have truly dared to go where no man has ever gone before.
So, Preliminary Expectoration or…
Alright, I can see this is going to be a process. So, we can just call this part one of Ti id in the INTJ and leave it at that for some kind of preliminary consideration. There is a lot to say about INTJs and I can see that I am going to be tortured the whole way forward. So, see you next time. And don’t forget to contribute if you feel a thing or two twinkling and tickling inside of you. When I say contribute, yes, I mean money. It helps, believe it or not.
Meanwhile, I’ll be over in my corner weeping at the thought of these glass onion INTJ souls. O, the pathos.
Related Articles:
INTJ: The Visitor
INFJ vs. INTJ
INTJ vs. ENTJ
Didn’t one of your readers introduce you to Neitzche?
I’m was so happy that you posted again 🙂 I like your posts so much. you write with knowledge and empathy and understanding of the human condition. You just don’t see that a lot anymore.
Hey Tiffany, thanks a lot. That means a lot to me.
I was first introduced to Nietzsche in a philosophy class I took in college and he is certainly one of the greatest discoveries of my life. So, when I write about INTJs I guess it makes sense that I would write about him more extensively. So, no, I’ve known about Nietzsche for quite a while now. If anyone is interested the best place to start with reading Nietzsche is his book, Beyond Good and Evil. Much of his philosophy and insight regarding the human condition can be found there. But, a warning to the more sensitive and coddled – Nietzsche pulls no punches and writes in a very eviscerating style that is not for the faint of heart. I don’t personally experience his writing that way and I actually think he one of the greatest writers I have ever read, I mean, just from a pure prose stylist point-of-view, regardless of the merit of his actual ideas, which are also extremely insightful, but, I know there are many of the “peace, love, and flowers” mindset that find him to be unbearable in his arrogance and harshness. There are also many of the scientific (analytical philosophy) mindset that find him to be too subjective in his insights. But, Nietzsche was basically an artist of an extremely high order while also being someone who penetrated the deep strata of human truth like no one else I can think of. He is instructive from multiple viewpoints. And misunderstood from each of those viewpoints too. Grossly misunderstood. His philosophy was distorted by the Nazis for one thing. It takes an extremely subtle and prudent mind to understand what he is saying. The average person likes to take some of the things he said like, “God is dead” out the context in which he was writing. Many of his books are written in an aphoristic style (sort of poetic), which means that any one line that is taken out of a passage is apt to suffer considerable distortion should it be viewed as a statement by itself. But, that hasn’t stopped many stupid people from thinking they have it all figured out. No, they don’t. Nietzsche is hard to interpret simplistically. One has to actually be able to think to read his books. Nietzsche was encouraging people to abandon gurus and become their own masters. He was striking and cutting through many hundreds of years of cultural and world conditioning to attempt to arrive at an origin for how humankind became so sick and weak, what he calls “decadence” of culture. So, I don’t know, he is certainly not for those who want to stay in their comfortable beliefs and group think. Nietzsche attacks all groups and categories in one way or another. And he can alternately praise them too. He is not a black and white thinker. Very subtle and profound man.
And he is also very instructive as an instance of the INTJ temperament, which is why I was writing about him here. Particularly the apocryphal story-mythology of his breakdown as a crowning example of this Ti id I am talking about.
I feel like a fan girl… Lol I’ve been degraded. Thanks a lot Blake… (Halfhearted thanks)
No Tiffany, you’re just smart, that’s all.
Blake…
You’re so nice ^_^
You get a pat on the head. Good boy
“…All I know is that it does move me out of my depths to think of this great man who so wanted to save man in some new way, and he couldn’t bear the implications of his own answer to this problem…Because in the end, all that emotion was there in some way.”
I can’t explain how much I loved this part
“…assuming that you live with them in the first place, which is highly unlikely. But, even if you do, you don’t.”
Haha. I’ll make an attempt at explaining this: I think it can feel like they’re living on a different plane — or like when we’re together, they’re living in and experiencing my world but I’m not living in theirs somehow. My mom is an INTJ and I think that’s a vibe I get when I’m with her. But it’s not off-putting! And I still feel very close to her, but maybe that’s just because she’s my mom 🙂 Looking forward to more.
O, there’s gonna be more. I ain’t finished with INTJs by a damn sight.
INTJs seem to have a tough time. I think I find that many introverted thinking types, and definitely INTs I know, wish that messy, inefficient human emotions weren’t a part of the equation, we’d all be better off without them, and it’s an unfortunate fact and flaw of life to deal with them in the first place.
You’ve described INTJs as independent, cold “cats” for the most part emotionally, but I’ve noticed you recognize their intense (though sparing) affections when they do arise. I do hope to eventually read more of your insights on the relational/emotional side of INTJs.
Cool, thanks for letting me know that you want to hear more about the “relational/emotional” side of INTJs. I will try to oblige and I think that this Ti id series will have something to say about that.
So, yea it’s like in interviews when they take one statement a person said and make it seem like they meant something totally different.
The Nazis were pretty much against religion, so did they advocate his views?
If he’s not a ‘black and white’ thinker then he reminds me of you 🙂 I guess I can be like that too but it would be hard to explain. Maybe once you get to know me more you’ll see what I mean. It’s just.. People are condemned a lot for their actions, but I try to see the big pic instead of playing God and I try to love and accept ppl.
I have to admit I don’t really understand the breakdown. To me it is more reasonable to assume that the horse hit his head or the man who was hitting the horse mistakenly hit him in just the right spot to cause brain damage that caused him to revert back to a state of dependency
I’m an INTJ and my father, an ISTP, has paranoid schizophrenia. Your analysis is wrong. It is a mind disease; it is a disease of the egoic mind. It is being trapped in the mind. That’s why some people think narcissism and schizophrenia are linked because there is a grandeur of self-importance in the paranoid delusions. It is not limited to a particular MBTI type, though some may be more susceptible. Psychology can’t cure schizophrenia because it is the study of the mind. You can’t cure the mind with the mind, but only with disidentification with mind. Eckhart Tolle, regardless of his other teachings, in my opinion offers the closest to “cure” for schizophrenia – the silencing of the mind and shrinking of ego by emphasis on here and now presence.
I’m not saying that INTJs are the only ones that are prone to schizophrenia, just that they are the type that is most schizotypal. I’m not saying that most INTJs are going to have schizophrenic breaks with reality. And I don’t see schizophrenia as an all or nothing thing. To me, it is a spectrum or continuum that can lead to very unique insights or on the opposite end, to some sort of splitting of the mind, a breaking of the mind. And yes, this is caused by being trapped in the mind to the exclusion of a feeling impulse or being in touch with reality.
I’m not understanding in explicit detail how you think my analysis is wrong. So, if you want to elaborate more on this, I’m interested to hear what you have to say.
I can’t answer the way you want. I could use my extraverted thinking to show you that factually schizophrenia spans MBTI and that if the cause-effect was MBTI related, it could be cured with MBTI. And you are using your introverted thinking to say, I think, therefore I have a theory. (Like my introverted feeling that says “I don’t like green eggs and ham, Sam I am” and there ain’t an extraverted feeling you can do about it) And we can go in great circles. BUT MBTI measures neural pathways in the brain, dario nardi, etc. and no matter WHAT pathway we discuss, yes, including feeling, we are talking mind and ego structure. Schizophrenia is the over-identification with the mind – regardless of type. The only way out, is consciousness, often gifted by grace, by the formless vertical, transcendent dimension. I can’t answer your question because it requires putting into form what is formless – consciousness itself. Thoughts, MBTI discussions, mind structures, psychological theories are all form; and you can’t fight the mind with the mind. And, yes, I know John Nash and Ted talk lady both ultimately recognized their delusions with their minds…but first, came a spark of grace – consciousness gifted to them (and/or awakened within them) that allowed the awakening and insight to the journey out of their delusions.
Okay, I think what I said was that INTJ is the most schizotypal of all types. I agree that any type can have schizophrenia. Schizotypal behavior and temperament is related to Ni function. INFJs share in this too. I don’t know what statistics you are referencing so I can’t comment on that. But, really, this is not even a statistical thing to me. It is more a matter of observing many different types and concluding that INTJs are the most schizotypal. I’m not even saying schizotypal personality disorder, which has clinical ramifications. Look up schizotypal personality disorder or schizoid personality disorder on Wikipedia. Tell me that many of the main traits of this disorder do not approximate many of the definitions and descriptions of Ni, and particularly, the INTJ personality type. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying that in most INTJs it will lead to a clinically-defined disorder of personality. It is the same thing with narcissism, which is a term that is bandied about very colloquially these days. When I refer to narcissistic traits in a type (again, often in Ni types), I am not saying that this mostly reaches the point where it meets a clinical definition of narcissistic personality disorder. So, take it with a grain of salt.
Schizotypal features have great upsides as well. Much like anything in human nature they simply need avenues for expression. Of course, in cases of full-blown schizophrenic breakdown, it is very difficult to treat because it is like fixing something that has already shattered. I too have known people that had schizophrenic breakdown and it is very difficult to deal with. And yes, I agree, somewhat, that because it is a disease of the mind, that the answer lies outside of mind. However, in the case of INTJs, per this theory, their auxiliary function of Te does have a role to play in how they can best mobilize some of the stagnating conceptual information that pools up in them to very productive and brilliant effect. You may not agree with this because you have already said that all this stuff is mind essentially, and therefore, the only hope lies in “consciousness” itself. First off, I don’t agree that just because all the functions can be mapped to brain areas, that this means that they are all “of the mind” we speak of when we are talking about N and T functions in particular. For example, though I’m sure “feeling” has corollaries in the brain, doesn’t mean that it is of the mind or mentation. There is a lot we do not know about how the mind works. And cognitive science is in its infancy. As is psychology. And in fact, psychology, in my opinion, has gone backwards the more it has approached a purely physiological model of the psyche.
Since I am not disregarding the concept of form, I am merely working with the forms of things as they present themselves to me. But, I hear what you are saying. And not to put too light a point on it, I think you are talking about Fi when you talk about formless consciousness. This is EXACTLY what I think Fi is. And if you are an INTJ, this is your tertiary function, and as such you may be pulling too much towards it at the expense of your auxiliary Te. I know, I know, the categorical Ti thinking again. But, I have observed INTJs to want to eschew Ti and go directly for the Fi ninja function where they can essentially get themselves in and out of a discussion with a great appearance of Eastern moral victory. The appeal to the formless is one way of doing this. Well, sorry, I am using words to do this website. They have form. So…that’s the way the cookie crumbles over here.
Also, I want to say that I really am glad that you have responded back to me. And I am very open to discussing this matter further. I would like it if more INTJs would comment on this site.
Also, I’m curious, what is the “formless vertical, transcendent dimension?” I’m actually most curious about the term “vertical”. Why does this formless dimension have the property of the “vertical?”
Yeah… Okay…
You are a mother fucking boss.
Truly.
With that said… This article, accompanied by your recording–have you ever considered podcasts?–just ever more in the class of validation.
My first comment’s indication owning the train wreck status notwithstanding, is there a paradoxm
& as I fucked that up by trying to comment & play guitar!!(hating myself but can’t fix the fuck-up)… What say you of the Ti/Fi tertiary interaction when compromising w/ the Fi/Ti in the Id?
Your work constantly reminds me of James Brown’s “The Payback” in a good way. A gorgeous, fancy, smooth way. On the one.
I’m in.
I’m not sure I understand your question. Are you asking what it is like when Fi is in the id with Ti as tertiary?
I think you would have been better off commenting with your guitar. Bown-cha-bown-cha-boing.
Yeah, I will probaly be doing podcasts in the future. And then I will rule even harder.
Sign me up for your podcasts 🙂 I would love that. I will be the president of your fan club 😉
I like your enthusiasm!
And ambition.
Oh, you have no idea ^_^
Lol jk jk!
Oops that previous comment was an accident. Anyway, this breakdown of Nietzsche, makes me wonder whether he was an empath or in general all INTJs are prone to this issue….. I simply cannot function if I see/hear/read sad things or helpless people. Instead I always have a wall, like a wall of hate or contempt that allows me to function in life. If I break down then it will take me weeks to recover. It is similar to symptoms of heartbreak that so strain the entire bodily system that a human will die. I am especially sensitive to these kind of things when I am in an unhealthy state and cannot rationalize my weird response. I just choose to shut it out. I’d rather people see the icy cold rather than know how vulnerable and loving I am. I go between the two extremes. I feel and see things so deeply that I cannot handle it. I do not have relationships because they have such an effect on me that I have difficulty functioning at work and in life. It is like two opposite sides of the brain where one craves to love so deeply and the other just wanted to live in a logical orderly and controlled world with no fear.
There are few people that see the soft and then most are really afraid of me. It makes me sad because I will do nothing to harm them. This fear makes me wonder whether there is something they hide that they do not want me to know. Or that they think that I already know and see. I can put in the effort to know and see what they hide but I don’t even want to bother because I know that in the end it will be too much for me to handle. Humans are such sad pathetic souls at the mercy of their understanding or lack thereof. I see an evil murderer and will feel sorry for him or see a wonderful person but see the evil that drives the “wonderfulness”. All humans are inherently evil anyway but in the end I don’t know…. I’m just rambling and tired.
Are you an INTJ?
Yes. Ugh I’m going through one of my Ni-Fi loops right now. I can see it in my writing and thoughts-circular and not very structured.
What is an Ni-Fi loop to you? Tell me about it.
NiFi loop is just what it sounds like. It’s not unique to INTJ’s, but it’s the INTJ version of the Dominant/Tertiary loop.
The idea of congitive functions is they always act in compementary ways to produce finished thoughts. No one “uses” any single function, they always pass attention, or psychological energy, from one function to another in order to provide enough content or structure to their libido to constitute a thought.
In a normal, healthy psyche, this includes a movement between extraverted and introverted functions. Cognition is like breathing – exhale, inhale, repeat. So for instance, in an INTJ a thought might begin with Ni (some idea or theory kicking around in their head). They then turn outward with Te to gather information from the objective world, which they then turn back inwards to feed back into their Ni and further grow, or flesh out, their understanding of the meaning of things.
In a dom/tert loop, a person gets stuck in all one direction of attention, and the psyche becomes unbalanced and starts to spin out of control. Sort of like a washing machine on spin cycle where all the clothes are clumped up in one side of the tub.
Ni gets an idea or theory, or recognizes some possibility, but instead of passing the attention off to an extraverted function (either Te or Se), the psyche passes off to Fi, and this provides a subjective feeling judgement. Which then gets passed back to Ni, which then takes this (likely over wrought, overly emotional, pessimistic, worse case doom and gloom) feeling perspective and uses it to inform it’s understanding of meaning, or what’s possible in the future. This now pessimistic-tinged theory or worldview or vision gets passed back again to Fi for more introspection, self-pity, negative judgment, shame based condemnation, whatevs, and that then gets sent back to Ni who then constructs an even MORE expansive dystopian vision of what will be.
It’s basically catastrophizing on steroids. We all do it, but some people stay in it for longer periods of time. The key to get out, of course, is just to turn to the auxiliary function. For an INTJ who finds himself in a NiFi loop, all that’s needed is a return to objective, rational use of real world empirical evidence to inform the Ni theory, rather than subjective Fi. Sometimes, honestly, just getting out of the house and going for a walk can do wonders (Se).
So in, say, an ESFJ, the dom/tert loop is FeNe, and this basically turns into a shame based panic attack. In an ESTJ, this is a TeNe turns into a fear based frenzy to control everything.
ENTJ might be the utterly blatant and outrageous use of power for personal, hedonistic gain (I always think of every corporate CEO who pressured some secretary into blowing him or being fired).
@ kat
I think you just helped me see some things about myself and other people, stuff I had been thinking about where I couldn’t come to a conclusion but your words / insight validate some thoughts and are very helpful. thanks
It would be interesting to know why those people act afraid when they see softness, am quite intrigued by that, I’ve had people react in utter nutjobness when I said something about their behaviour and wonder why they reacted in such a massively over the top manner, not quite me showing my vulnerability (but clear observing and sharing matter of factly) but the strong reactions it caused in them and I don’t know why.
Generally speaking, the more emotionless and lacking in generalized feeling someone is, the more ACTUAL feelings they contain, and the more sensitive (really, it’s rawness) they are – to both their own and others hurts. Assuming they notice these hurts in the first place.
This is obvious to anyone who knows an INTJ or ISTJ of a certain age well enough. (And honestly, why I personally find ISTP to be the most frightening. There is something about the utter lack of personal meaning I see in them…)
The corollary is that evidentially the more someone feels and navigates the world through emotion, the more they also think – but it’s a narrow thought, or handful of thoughts. They fixate on the idea and cannot resolve it nor get away from it. (This was news to me when I learned it, but it appears to be true.)
OK I’m writing quickly so apologies if grammar or wording is messy. What I call my Ni-Fi loop is when I just stop doing anything. I’m stuck thinking and thinking about something but it doesn’t make sense and then it makes perfect sense and I justify with my emotions that it is OK for me to continue thinking and not do anything. Then it stops making sense so I try figuring it out again and then feel anxious and depressed because all I’m doing is thinking. I then again convince myself that the thinking is useful and feel good again. The cycle continues. What usually helps is writing things out but if it is that bad then I will write/organize my thoughts over and over and over again but still have a jumble in my head. It feels crippling because I really want to be doing but I never get to the doing. The entire time I am upset at myself and trying to figure out what to do to get out of this loop. Not sure whether it is Ni-Fi though. Note that I’m writing about it it seems almost like Ni-Ti but then again I’m not an expert on functions.
How I get out of it seems magical. Like someone just snapped their fingers. Then I’m running around on steroids with super clear thinking and crisp decision making. My coworkers are usually dumbfounded by this change. My ability to get things done is then 10x the amount of my ADD ENTP and ESTP coworkers. Things just flow. I go through these periods pretty often. I’m trying to minimize the time I’m spending in the loop state but I have not figured out yet what causes the magical shift to the external implementation state. I love the action state because I feel like I’m in flow. However as soon as something doesn’t match the model I built I go back to looping things around in my mind. I’m almost never wrong (because I tend to think through all possibilities) so when things go off track or not as I imagined in my mind then it really brings me down.
Anyway now thinking more about it, it seems as though it is negative emotion towards myself that causes me to go into this loop. Other things that trigger it is when I start getting romantically interested in someone and can’t figure out where they stand or when I think that I’m letting someone down with my work. I’m just usually extremely harsh on myself and every time I don’t meet my expectations then it affects me greatly emotionally. Over the years I’ve learned to not be so harsh toward myself but it is extremely difficult not to have high standards.
“The Visitor” is very fitting in describing an INTJ. They visit, try to assimilate, can’t fit, then can doom themselves and the world for it. I am comparing myself to Nietzsche. After becoming utterly fascinated by and engrossed with philology, Nietzsche dedicated his studies to mostly Greek Literature. He was recognized for his achievement in his schooling by his teachers and eventually lands a job as a professor in philology. I’m sure Nietzsche is pumped at this point. He expands his understand and his world by writing. His colleagues are not impressed by his literary contributions and Nietzsche is disheartened by this. Think about an INTJ writing something, working so hard on something, having the balls to publish it, only to have it disregarded. He immediately has this feeling of never succeeding, never being recognized respectfully by his peers and colleagues. Why? “The establishment”. It seems he already has a clear distinction from reality when it comes to being him. And this is where the schizotypal part may come in. “The establishment” makes you who you are. You do not have a choice. And, it seems from then on, he takes this “fuck you” attitude. I can relate to Nietzsche deeply. And if it weren’t for a century difference, I think our paths would look a lot alike (emotionally). I go through cycles. The highs last longer than the lows, so I got that going for me. I go through periods of loving everyone. Everyone I know and don’t. Because we are one, yes? We are connected and we have a conscious mind. It’s beautiful. Then, I go through periods (one of which I am currently in) where I see man as a herd and not an individual. A puzzle piece with it’s uniquely individual corners shorn off. Maybe that’s why I love animals so much. I love their simplicity. And there is never a false front. Not long ago, I was food shopping for a Christmas gathering. Everyone was rushing and pushing (and sweating). I literally stopped in the middle of an isle bewildered. I had this insanely eerie feeling I was in hell. And, I was waiting for someone to notice that I noticed. That feeling hasn’t left me since. When I’m in my one of my lows, I think of how we are on repeat. I have this insanely negative feeling that we will go nowhere. History will keep on repeating itself. Man has created too many boundaries, too many religions. I’m not sure exactly where I’m going with this, but Blake said more INTJs should comment. So, there ya go. “Stay Classy San Diego.”
Thank you for that, glad you posted. If Nietzsche is saying ‘fuck you’, I probably need to read up. So many good authors… I have a lot of reading to do.
And I’ve stood in your place, asking what the fuck am I doing? What is everyone doing? What is this!?
Too little time for all of the books I have on my list. I’ve passed the point of asking what’s going on. Rather, I know, and I don’t like it. Thank you for the reply TinyYellowTree.
” Maybe that’s why I love animals so much. I love their simplicity. And there is never a false front. Not long ago, I was food shopping for a Christmas gathering. Everyone was rushing and pushing (and sweating). I literally stopped in the middle of an isle bewildered. I had this insanely eerie feeling I was in hell. And, I was waiting for someone to notice that I noticed. That feeling hasn’t left me since. When I’m in my one of my lows, I think of how we are on repeat. I have this insanely negative feeling that we will go nowhere. ”
I can relate, been going through something similar. Very recently. It made me feel nauseous, like I was losing it. It is interesting that I read that here now.
Simplicity is something that feels like the answer. I too thought of animals and the simplicity, the beauty that some of them show, it feels like the connection to such awareness of other beings, of consciousness in different living forms, in everyday life, is not as part of everyday life as it was, as if there is a lot of forgetting or not (even) knowing or being aware of these things, like a lack of
sensitivity, a lack of delicate senses or sensing, it’s drowned out, and needs to be cultivated. Thank you for the reminder. !
@fury – Yes, we have lost that connection to our roots. We have this awesome ability to ascend, but we need to remember to also stay grounded in the process. Maybe I’m just sad I won’t see a dramatic change in my lifetime. We are a young species in the history of Earth, so there is a lot more time to go (hopefully!). Trial and error. I just get a little depressed when I read things from Authors 100 years ago, and it still applies today. But then again, 100 years is a blink of eye. It’s like our conscious is a blessing and curse. And, it’s okay to be both I suppose, but we need to find a better balance. We can find a better balance. We have our minds. While we are not animals, we can learn from them – instead of making them road-kill. I guess it’s just going to take a little change at a time – one person at a time – one mind at a time. Meanwhile, I’ll find my snuggly spot with like-minded people. Or should I be snuggly?
To snuggle or not to snuggle? That is the question.
@blake Mm, yes. ‘Tis indeed.
Wow, love the site. I’m a July 9th intj trying to find out exactly how everybody else is so misunderstanding and how to leverage my abilities. Your site is exactly what I needed. I just finished your entp article which summed up my mother and sister perfectly. (You can guess how fun that was growing up). Your writing style is genius. And the beginning bridges your building between zodiacs and types is what I was gravitating to as I try to digest all this, even though it’s an iceberg of info and I haven’t even hit the water yet. I’ll be diving into all the articles more as I have time between learning code, so please keep up all of the great work. My goals are to involve all of this in varying degrees in my personal life and careers so I thank you for shedding light and advancing these theories in anyway.
Related to the article-
Could it be that Nietzsche was centuries ahead of his time and what he felt was the urge of becoming literally above man and mercy and leaving people behind on earth as space travel to a habitable planet becomes accessible to a chosen few (and clearly the first volunteers would be intjs)? But the tragedy of still being stuck around so much ignorance for now caused the lever to swing wildly in the opposite direction thus breaking his brain in half. I know that’s what I feel often on a smaller scale. I will definitely read all of his material eventually when I have the freedom I need granted by money and try to get a better understanding of him and myself.
Good article.
However you miss the point of nietchze, in doing away with pity. Nor can one lacking the abilities he possessed understand what happened to him.
It is misunderstood, because as stated we are from another place.
I missed the point in Nietzsche because of doing away with pity? How?
In lacking the abilities he had no one can understand what happened to him? What abilities did he have? Why would someone lacking those abilities not be able to understand him?
It is misunderstood, because as stated we are from another place? What is misunderstood? Who stated we are from another place? What the hell are you talking about?
A little more clarity please. Your comment is highly murky and unintelligible as it stands.
Who said we were from another place? INTJ: the visitor; a post made on this blog.
From experince, and my own mindset I believe too many missed the point of what he meant, by doing away with pity;
“one had to live above humankind the way it was structured at present, that in short order, one must become more than one is, one must experience humanity at a great height, above the unbearably tragic nature of human history hitherto,”
What does said statement actually state if one has studied word origins? Did he actually say have no pity?
As to addressing the possible abilities in question, how does one descibe the sky or water to one who has never seen it.
I will think on it.
Concerning aforementioned abilities, we could say, perhaps, he was an empath whose empathy overwhelmed him.
Often times when people write they want to do away with those things which are overwhelming. Meaning: his empathy and pity were so deeply rooted as to become antagonistic to his quality of life, and his writings were an attempt on his part to root it out of his life.
Does that help?
Yes.
I share for consideration,
I am, er, or have been INTJ. At 51 following 6 years of cancer in my INFJ mate, I believe I can tell you EXACTLY why he left us. Simply put, the few of us that hide in plain sight cannot be found out too soon, so we remain hidden & complete our calculations, master plan, the big fix. This is the nature of the need for will. We see just how fucked the monkeys are… if we are discovered we are sucked dry and not in the friendly sense. Worse we are drawn into the miserable game this world is locked in. So you see, if we show Fi combined with Ti we are consumed, its monkey crack… The challenge arrises in suppressing empathy, maintaining the illusion of invulnerability .. indefinitely if our plans are not complete. and as we actually have feelings in the id the id will simply at some point decide that the whole damn thing is fucked and decide to enforce base function emotionally. After all something is clearly fucked, why else would I suppress feelings right? that’s what the id thinks so it takes over with all the grace and finesse of a 3 year old.
INTJs on Schyzotypal mode sounds so much like what happened to our fellow INTJ-Ted Kaczynsky, before the person become a killer, and later claimed as Schizophreniac and insane. I also need to put a warning, to share good information that INTJs need to be extra careful if they started to develop narcissistic traits, because it can progressed towards psychopathy/malignant, as mostly geniuses/gifted people tend to gravitate towards NPD.
Damm. This was good.