Bob Dylan fashioned himself from the dust of a little town called Hibbing, Minnesota. Dylan started as a folk musician writing songs of protest in the background of 1960s-era America and ended by being considered the voice of his generation. He went through so many different phases, styles, and incarnations that no one could keep up with him. To this day he still isn’t understood. Dylan is a hybrid. Dylan is a Gemini.
And he wrote songs that only an INFJ could write. Why?
Let’s begin by looking at some of Dylan’s song titles:
– Subterranean Homesick Blues
– Stuck Inside of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again
– It Takes A lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train To Cry
– It’s Alright Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)
– Leopard-Skin Pillbox-Hat (very Gemini)
– Love Minus Zero/No Limit
– Sad-Eyed Lady Of The Lowlands
– Positively 4th Street
– Queen Jane Approximately
– Rainy Day Women #12 & 35
– Temporary Like Achilles
OK, as far as I’m concerned, case closed. Bob Dylan = INFJ, just from the titles alone.
As a matter of fact, if the only thing I knew about Dylan was that he wrote a song that goes by the title of Sad-Eyed Lady of The Lowlands, that would pretty much clinch it for me.
If that is not the case for you, well, you better stay tuned, because I’m going to save you a lot of time and agony in your search for who is what type.
Let’s look at another song title: Subterranean Homesick Blues.
OK, that song title is either the work of an ENTP or INFJ. Yes, ENTPs can write a three word phrase like that. It has that jaunty, ramshackle, and yet, in the final analysis, slick and seamless quality to it. In a word, it is elegant. It somehow all hangs together, when it really shouldn’t.
Same goes for the song title, Stuck Inside of Mobile with The Memphis Blues Again.
Either Dr. Seuss wrote that song or an INFJ did. Dr. Seuss is obviously an ENTP, and since he didn’t write this song, I’m left to conclude that it was an INFJ.
We can also notice that an ENTP didn’t write a great majority of these songs because of some of the keywords that stand out: blues, cry, bleeding, love, sad, lowlands, rainy, heavy, and the observation that it takes a lot of things all piled up together to make you laugh, but just one thing (a train) to make you cry.
Nope, ENTPs ain’t gonna be having none of that. If an ENTP wrote that song it would be called It Takes A Lot to Cry, It Takes Green Eggs and Ham To Make Other People Cry.
ENTPs tend to stay away from downer things such as love, lowlands, and bleeding.
However, Dr. Seuss, our resident ENTP, could have definitely written a song such as Leopard-Skin Pillbox-Hat. It has that irreverent “balancing elephants on telephone poles” quality.
Also, I want you to notice a characteristic way that INFJs use language. Notice the song Queen Jane Approximately. We have a two words that are a proper noun and then as a little afterthought the word, “approximately”. The same thing is done with the song Positively 4th Street, except in this case, the afterthought is used as a forethought. It’s not just 4th street, its positively 4th street. This type of thing is a totally INFJ thing. Dylan was a genius at being able to take a relatively pedestrian phrase and make it into this evocative coupling by adding one word. That’s a genius thing to be able to do.
Take Rainy Day Women #12 & 35. Similar thing. It’s an introverted thinking thing (numbers, quantity) combined with an extraverted feeling thing.
Take the song Love Minus Zero/No Limit.
Love Minus Zero? Those three words confirm INFJ. The math of emotion.
To give a few instances of other INFJs who do this type of thing brilliantly in titles I’ll name off Philip K. Dick, the science fiction writer, in his book entitled A Scanner Darkly. Here we see the humanizing of a machine by using a qualitative term to imbue it with an emotional tone of some sort.
Alternately, INFJs dehumanize a person by using a quantitative description such as numbers, math, or the word “approximately” to refer to them. INFJs do that all the time, like I just cited in the instance of Bob Dylan. Think with your heart, feel with your head.
Take Alice B. Sheldon, a female science fiction writer, who wrote a book entitled Warm Worlds and Otherwise. Same thing. We have the plural noun “worlds” and these worlds are described with the adjective “warm” and then as a sort of flippant afterthought, the phrase, “and otherwise”. That is the introverted thinking tertiary being used brilliantly in characteristic INFJ fashion. It’s has the effect of saying, “There is this feeling tone that is like this, but a little bit adjusted to this position to give it a slight formal quality.” INFJs have a sort of mathematical precision within the confines of a natural language.
That is so INFJ. Taking an introverted thinking aspect of language, like a noun, and then using an extraverted feeling aspect of language, like an adjective, and with an archer’s accuracy, pin it to the bulls eye with a quick stroke of their pen. INFJs have uncanny accuracy of aim with words. It has the effect of an elegant formula that sums up this whole body of emotional truth and experience.
The definitive vs. the descriptive. Introverted thinking vs. extraverted feeling. INFJs have a gift with using this axis in a back-and-forth, alternating manner to articulate the perceptions they are receiving via their introverted intuitive dominant function. Extraverted feeling leads, but introverted thinking follows as a natural opposite reaction. And INFJs need to not let it be the other way around. Or they will come to a standstill.
Okay, back to Dylan. We will notice a fair amount of train references in Dylan’s songs. Actually, he named a whole album of his after this: Blood on The Tracks. Then there are things in his songs like a thousand telephones that won’t ring, highways that are revisited, trains that make you cry (perfect meeting point for Gemini and INFJ – transportation and tears), being a rolling stone with no direction home, in short, a lot of Gemini-type references to transportation, highways and byways, jingle-jangle mornings, communication portals such as telephones, mailboxes, and post offices, train lines, railroad men, restlessness, boredom, and needing to get somewhere besides where they’re at now. All those subjects are typical Gemini subjects.
There must be some kind of way out of here. What is it? What do I have to do to not have to go through all these things twice? Those are some of the Gemini themes running through Dylan’s songs. Gemini can’t bear to stand still. Nor to experience the same thing twice.
Dylan has a song called Maggie’s Farm that is all about the Gemini hell of boredom combined with the INFJ ability to use very simple and effective metaphors to illustrate how everyone in the world around them is so blind (and so boring).
You know, INFJs are really, really good at dressing people down without being detected. This is the gift of metaphor and inference. Reading between the lines. For a Gemini INFJ, it would be reading between the telephone lines. INFJ + Gemini = master of the double entendre. Gemini is all about using two things to play off each other. Gemini + INFJ = syllogisms on acid.
Dylan was always banging people over the head in his song lyrics; ribbing, needling, jesting, quipping, dipping, diving, conniving, and out-thriving. If an interviewer asked him about it he would just say something cryptic and quixotic to snuff out the inquiry. Press people would hound Dylan asking, “What do your songs mean?” He would say, “They mean what they are,” or something to that effect.
I don’t think Dylan really knew what he was doing. He was surprised that people were attributing all these meanings to it. And that is the thing about INFJs (especially a Gemini one), they are just singing their song. They just express and out comes bits of these cosmic truths disguised as lies. And sometimes it is the opposite, lies that are disguised as truth. Really, they don’t even know.
Yet, they do. Paradox.
It is often true that an artist will have little idea what they have expressed or what the significance of their work is. They might just write off lines that don’t make any sense. And other people will see all these things in it. But it wasn’t intentional and it may or may not be true. It could all be true and not simultaneously.
Being a Gemini is a bit like being an ENTP’s auxiliary function of introverted thinking. The way an ENTP uses introverted thinking is totally different than the way an INTP would use it. ENTPs use it playfully and irreverently, in Dr. Seuss fashion. They engage in a lot of word and logic play that shows the hilarity of situations, people, things, and even language itself.
I think that is the heart of the matter; language itself. ENTPs engage in the irreverent use of language like they are just treating words and logic like totally dumb and hopelessly futile things (the birth of ironic detachment) but in a way they use this mode of irreverence towards language to teach you an attitude of respect towards using language and words in a way that reflects their true nature. Stephen Colbert comes to mind. So does Socrates, the ENTP of all ENTPs, when he questioned people to find out what they know to find out that when you strip through all the layers of language, people don’t really know anything. They just know words. In other words, words have their definitions and in those definitions are more words that have their own definitions. ENTPs know this and have this as their kind of primal dilemma (if it may be considered a dilemma to them because I don’t think they really care).
INFJs have this devil-may-care attitude to language via their tertiary function of introverted thinking. It may be fair to say that INFJs treat words even more irreverently than even ENTPs in some ways. Well, it depends. Some INFJs get very caught up in correct word choice when they are writing, but that is because they are going directly for introverted thinking (definitive meaning of terms) rather than extraverted feeling (overall tone of the whole expression, like a picture in words).
But, Dylan being a lot like the jester aspect of ENTP was an INFJ that treated words like birds, like absurds. And don’t be such a nerd for getting so hung up on it. That is Gemini INFJ.
They are just words. Take them at face value. They are things unto themselves that only refer to themselves. They are a sort of playground. ENTPs are like pigs rolling festively in the mud of this playground.
But, add in the INFJ temperament and you get someone who is capable of expressing deep truths, often without knowing it or intending to, and paradoxically and conversely, sometimes with a deadly serious intent to do so bordering on divine mission (that’s INFJ for you).
But, both ENTP and INFJ will suddenly drop the whole import of a matter in a burst of cosmic humor and irreverence. Actually, an ENTP will just start out that way and an INFJ will often leave off there, like, “Yeah, what was all that about?”
INFJs start out trying to say something that reflects the condition of a suffering and oppressed humanity and then end up in a state of philosophical detachment. INFJs tend to resolve to this position as they mature. But, only after going through a time.
Bob Dylan is a good example of an INFJ who expressed themselves rather profusely and without a lot of self-editing. He didn’t need to know what he was saying. What he really needed to do was keep moving forward like a train rolls on down the tracks. Yes, there is all this heartache on the way. But, Bob’s motto was “Don’t look back.” That is the Gemini way. Keep moving. Like a rolling stone that gathers no moss. The answer, if it comes at all, will come without getting hung up at one signpost or another.
Interesting.
I think it should read: infj + gemini = genius approximately.
Insightful point about gemini and the ti of entp. I know what that means and very much relate to that. And I feel a certain kinship with entps in general, like a close familial type connection. They are the type i feel most grateful for.
…Bob Dylan….i honestly dont know. . i found your ideas interesting nonetheless. He certainly has that gemini energy…i think with a more earthy element feel. And i can see the infj-ish vibe in his songs. I really like Bob Dylan’s music. I love the way he uses words. And i love his voice and his singing style. But i get the feeling that his songs although lyrically gorgeous and ‘loaded’ or jammed with meaning…are missing something. I do feel that he wrote primarily from intution and feeling, but i feel that there is some kind of superficiality and lack of depth in there somewhere, something very much about appearances and shine and popular, rather than that something raw and perfectionist that i associate with infj musicians. I also get the feeling that he was more committed to creating music and entertaining than he was to any of the deeper causes that his music alluded to. (not that there is anything wrong with that anyway). Although some of his music is about causes, i dont think he is about causes or has that inbuilt self righteous sense of ‘ we’ve got to do the right thing just because’ that many infjs have.
I get a gut feeling he is not infj (but im hardly committed to this). i’ve seen him in interviews and the main things i get from him are fi, ni, and se. I dont feel any fe or ti. He could be an intj, but i think its more likely that he is isfp. I dont think he is ni dom, but he could be…ni dom can be elusive and hard to read sometimes. He seems to give off a classic fi vibe to me though. Paired with that that trippy tertiary ni thing that isfps and istps have. But i dont think he is istp…i cant see him as ti dom.
Isfps can be very clever with language as well, and the tertiary ni gives them an incredible complexity and mystery. My daughter’s dad is entp and his partner is isfp. They are seriously like a classic dual pair….excellent together and very funny and entertaining. She is creative and clever with anything artistic. She is almost obsessed with naming things. And the names she chooses are normally quite elegant and trippy. I cant see her ever acting as arsholey as bob dylan…but i have known other isfps that could and did. But an infj acting like a arsehole is really really bad destroy everything destroy the world bad.
Im guessing either isfp or intj…perhaps slighlty unhealthy either way. If he is an infj…he would be seriously unhealthy and confused i think
Lol….i get that this comment is probably too long
Bob Dylan was like an INTJish, ISFPish, ENTPish INFJ. Anytime you get that kind of all over the place typings, extraverted feeling in the auxiliary position is implicated. And since there is no way in hell Dylan is an ISFJ since it is very clear that he is using strong intuition in some way, we are left to conclude that he is an INFJ.
Bob Dylan did use very strong extraverted feeling in his music. Listen to some of his greatest songs (Blonde on Blonde and Highway 51 era songs), songs such as Stuck Inside of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, Subterranean Homesick Blues, and Maggie’s Farm. Listen to those and tell me how Dylan is not using extraverted feeling flow backed by introverted intuition (or some kind of intuition). Those songs with that kind of profusion of imagery that feel like it is just arising in Dylan’s mind and then without any hesitation being kicked out onto the page, is an extraverted feeling thing backed by either introverted intuition or extraverted intuition. All those songs have that feeling of like Dr. Seuss on acid.
Yet, as you mentioned, there is a very strong introverted feeling vibe coming from Dylan. Well, do the math. No ENTP ever kicks off a strong introverted feeling vibe. Ever. It is actually one of the ways to identify an ENTP, by this total and complete lack of deep sentiment in what they are doing. Yet, INFJs are built on a very strong foundation of introverted feeling (though this is not generally known) such that you get this mixture of ironic detachment (especially in a Gemini INFJ) mixed with deep and heartbreaking themes.
In Dylan’s most groundbreaking songs you hear this mixture. On the surface the songs are hilarious. Or flippant. Or glib. The immediate impression is of a person that is running out of breath just to keep up with all the things and imagery that is coming into their mind and all the things that they have seen. And it is all encoded in some way such that what is arising are these strings of metaphors that are reflecting actual experience of events. It is very introverted intuitive combined with the Geminian raw and undigested reporting of what actually happened. And also, that extraverted feeling flow that when it gets going is almost unstoppable. It just starts blazing off every color of the rainbow indiscriminately.
And then often near the end of a Dylan song, there will suddenly be this pithy formulation that sums up all that shit he was just talking about. Stuck Inside of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again is one of the most brilliant instances of this I have ever seen. And it is so characteristic of the way an INFJ uses the extraverted feeling-introverted thinking axis in that alternating fashion I described in the article, with extraverted feeling leading the whole shebang. In that song Dylan is just basically describing all these concrete events that he has been witness to (Gemini witnessing like a journalist reporting facts).
In effect, what he is saying is something along the lines of “This guy was doing this and these ladies were doing that. And I was trying to do this thing in response to it but then I found out that the place where you go to do that at is gone. Then I strolled over to this other place and the scene over there was like this, and somebody told me to watch out for that, but I didn’t know that at the time, and an event happened to me there that proved them right.”
And so on. That song is very Gemini in its simple and unbiased reporting of events that Dylan (the journalist) saw. No interpretation. No aim. Just, “This is what I saw, felt, heard, and experienced.”
But, the final line of that song is such a sudden, spontaneous, and hilarious formulaic summation of all those people, places, events, and scenes that have come before. Dylan says in summation of all the profusion of shit that has just gone down in front of his eyes:
That is one of the most brilliant and hilarious summations I have ever heard in a song. And so Gemini (the hell of repetition). It’s funny because there is all this buildup of imagery and events in the song such that you think you might be led to this grand catharsis about what all of it means and the conclusion about all of it is like, “Sheesh, what do I have to do not to go through that shit again?” So, that is the introverted thinking formulation that Dylan arrives at as an almost dashed off afterthought of all the Fe expression driving the song. It has the effect of taking the piss out of all the whole proceedings. It’s like introverted thinking all of a sudden coming into all that profusion and wildness of imagery and saying, “And in net effect, this is the reduced fraction final result. Tell me what I owe so through these things I don’t have to twice go.”
And yet that song is so deep in some way. It may seem glib on the surface. And it is. But, Dylan’s best stuff was like that, a mixture of this total glibness and irreverence with this deep heartache and insight beneath. Actually, to me, my least favorite Dylan song’s are the ones that are outright and obviously serious, like a lot of his earlier protest era songs. INFJs often do their best work when they are not trying to be serious, preachy, heavy, and deep. This is doubly true for a Gemini INFJ.
A similar instance of this is Johnny Depp, another Gemini INFJ. Yeah, he played all these mute and serious characters in a lot of his earlier movies. But, what do I think is the best role he ever played in any movie? The one where he played Captain Jack Sparrow in Pirates of The Carribean (the first one). That was the first movie I saw with him in it where I thought he was brilliant. He was just being so glib, ironic, jester-like, and light. Yet, there was something moving and deep about his character under that glib and foolish surface, something honorable and humanistic. Also, something about the figure of the trickster archetype. Like Dylan, like Depp, and like Gemini. The trickster can accomplish greater things in their foolishness than an earnest man can in all their trying and striving for a result.
Dylan an ISFP? Sorry, that is out of the question. No ISFP has the power and range of expression that someone like Dylan had, introverted intuitive tertiary function or not. The tertiary function is more of an afterthought than a primary driver in a type. And Dylan was driven like a motherfucker by a profusion of intuitive insights that he would have had to try to hold back. Luckily, he was an INFJ that from a young age learned how to use their auxiliary extraverted feeling to let them come sprawling forth. Many INFJs block their flow by reaching for the end before the beginning.
Sure, in most interviews Dylan appears muted and resentful, which is how introverted feeling usually manifests in INFJs, but that is because he had nothing to say about his songs that wasn’t already said in his songs. Because if there was any other way to say those things then he probaly wouldn’t have written the songs in the first place. He had to write them to discharge his superfluous and overflowing insights about this, that, and the other thing. All his extraverted feeling is in his art. And it is often the case that INFJs let their art stand in for them. Consult the art. Don’t ask me because if I knew how to say it some other way, I wouldn’t have made the art.
And, it is often the case, that an artist makes something that they don’t understand themselves. It was just something that they had to express in some form or they would have blown up from the pressure. INFJs are often in this position of having to be artists in one way or another to deal with the buildup of insights and perceptions that assail them at all times. Since they can’t discharge them into direct action (extraverted sensation), they have to substitute with artistic action (extraverted feeling) to get that shit out of them and into the world. ISFPs don’t have anywhere near this amount of need, which is not to say they aren’t artistic because they often are, but the average ISFP is relatively low-key and unambitious in this regard compared to an INFJ. Also, ISFPs have extraverted sensation auxiliaries, which means they have an outlet into the world of direct action that is forever lost for an INFJ.
Besides, ENTP + ISFP + INTJ = INFJ Approximately. You say you don’t see any Ti in Dylan but like I said it is there if you just look at the song titles I listed in the articles. He is not an easy one to type because of his elusiveness. But, that is extraverted feeling in the auxiliary. A little bit of this, a little bit of that, a changing up of things over here when the mode becomes too certain, and just a generally hard-to-pin down person. Add in the Gemini trickster-quality, forget about it. You’ll never catch them at their game.
I’m not familar with Dylan’s poetry but now I feel that I should be. Because you have accurately described my creative process. At first one phrase appears. For example “train full of people and anxieties” (train, haha) or “100 different manners to ask the way”. I can forget about it, but it returns time after time and reminds me about its existence. Than I say ok, let it be. And a lot of stuff comes as a flood with this phrase so I need write down all this as soon as possible. And I write and write feeling that something interesting should happen in the end. Yes, and this is that summing up phrase. Nerdgasm.
Yes, INFJs should learn to go with their initial inspiration wherever it happens to take them. And Dylan is definitely good to study from that point of view. All those songs of his from around 1965, 1966, and 1967 are showing an INFJ at the top of their game. That was some high-level, stream-of-consciousness beatnik poetry and it was just flowing out of him. Dylan is a great instance of the way an INFJ should use their Fe auxiliary to channel their Ni dominant wilderness of thoughts, perceptions, and insights. Without hesitation, reflection, or searching for the most perfect and elegant expression of them.
It’s similar in mathematics. You can’t arrive at the answer until you work through the problem. And the only problem an INFJ should be preoccupied with is how to express themselves. Not even how. But, simply to do so in some way that they enjoy. That’s the setup of that type. To make it simple, you have Ni, you don’t even have to try to have that. It’s just there. But, you have to do something with it or it builds up. Then INFJ often leaps to Ti, which is like putting a cork on a release valve. The step they missed was the extraverted one that would allow them an instantaneous (non-thinking) way of discharging their insights, Fe.
Fe is very simple. Flow, expression, spontaneous pouring out of contents (wherever or whatever they are), and not knowing what you are doing. The key for INFJ is to flow, and be willing not to know. That is the difficult thing to many INFJs because they are pushing for some final answer or summation (Ti tertiary) of who they are or what it is all about before they make a move. No, they have to move first and in the process of movement all that stuff will come as a natural reaction of doing that. Extraversion is movement away from oneself. So, INFJs have to move away from themselves in order to get closer to themselves. That is the paradox that often vexes them.
I can assure you that Dylan had no idea what he was saying when he wrote those songs. He simply wrote down what was flying through his mind. And he was a “healthy” INFJ in the sense that he didn’t get caught up in all the bullshit about what it all meant. Which is why he comes off as an asshole in a lot of the interviews he is in. He didn’t see it as his responsibility to tell people what to think. And he also just didn’t care that much. He was just doing what he needed to do. The fact that he tapped into something that moved a lot of people wasn’t his business. He didn’t consider himself obligated to the folk movement he started out in. Nor to the fans of him when he went electric. He was simply expressing what he felt he had to for himself at any given time. That is really all an INFJ should concern themselves with. They are here to express their visions. It isn’t moral, true, false, or anything. It just is. It can be that simple.
But, many INFJs want to make it complex. Well, extraversion is real simple, extraversion in the feeling mode, doubly so.
Just do it.
Whatever it turns out to be is largely out of your hands.
As always- interesting analysis. I enjoy reading about your perception and your take on types. I can see where you are coming from and how your arrived at your conclusion. I have tried to hold bob dylan in my mind as infj…but its just not fitting.
My way of typing is mainly irrational and intuitive. I try to break it down and understand it, but the main and most natural way I type people is simply recognising the face or shape of a particular archetype in a person. I believe that all the 16 types have a certain shape or essence. I dont think that people change type but I do think there is a lot of fluidity and room for movement within type. It fascinates me how people of the same type can be so fundamentally different in ways. For example, the one infj that I know in person is very different from me in terms of values, beliefs, lifestyle, attitudes etc…yet I have always known that in essence I am running the same programming as her, simply expressed in a different way. This is one of the reasons I find archetypes and typology so much fun and trippy to explore. There are other infjs that I have met online or that I know of, and I don’t necessarily relate to them or even ‘like’ them, but it just clicks that they are using the same basic program archetype. With bob dylan, i think he is beautiful and and very cool. But he honestly does not feel infj to me. I am certain in how I feel, but I could be wrong, and I’m happy to be wrong. Im not here to convince you on anything. I’m not invested in him being one type or another. It doesn’t matter.
In regards to entps and introverted fi…yes entps dont use fi consciously (and I dont think dylan is entp anyway). But I do feel that entps are intensely feeling, just not in the same way as other types. My best friend is an entp, and he is one of the most deeply emotional people I know and he has a lot of depth to his feeling. He is also extraordinarily compassionate and passionate. This quality generally makes him endearing, and his words and ti logic all the more relevant to others. He does play and write music, and he has a lot of range…some neurotic lol, and some moving, some utterly comedic, some all the above. The tertiary fe of entp can be as varied and charismatic as any fe dom, albeit executed differently.
Based on my observations and interactions with people- I believe that the tertiary function is very important. I think all the functions are important in different ways, even the unconscious ones. I see the tertiary function as the one that is consciously and intentionally developed by a person. In this way, sometimes it can be a bit of a fetish function, or misused in unhealthy ways. But it can also go really interesting places, and be re appropriated in novel ways. I think tertiary function also has a lot to do with duality and balance within the individual and also in relationships. I could go on about this for some time so i’ll stop here.
I think that you underestimate isfp and their depth and range. I see isfp as the literal eternal child, and I find their archetype to be intensely spiritual in a grounded way. Fi dom equals artist, and fi is some of the most intense exploration into the human (or personal) condition imaginable. Which is one of the reasons that I sometimes can be turned off by fi…it can seem melodramatic and self indulgent and pointless. I dont get why fi doms care so much about some things, when they aren’t ‘real’ (fe/ti) concerns. But I also find fi truly fascinating and compelling. And fi music is so intense and emo…NIN, Nirvana, Eminem etc. And I like a lot of it, even get off on it… but I also dont get the intensity, because it seems so trivial sometimes (not always)
This is what you said in your previous comment on Dylan:
That superficiality, lack of depth, surface appearances, shine, popularity, commitment to creating music and entertaining rather than a commitment to deep causes and “doing the right thing” is a totally extraverted feeling in the auxiliary phenomenon taking precedence over the introverted feeling concern with all the suffering and woes of the world.
So, you are right, by your own lights. Dylan was using more extraverted feeling than introverted feeling, at least in his prime-era songs. When he started out as a folk-song writer he was using more introverted feeling. But, then he turned his back on that whole tradition, in the process pissing a lot of the people in that movement off when he “went electric” and basically became a popular and hip rock musician.
Well, that has INFJ written all over it. INFJs often start out at introverted feeling and (if healthy), make the move towards extraverted feeling. That is the INFJ path of growth, believe it or not. I believe that INFJs are more immature and unhealthy when they are obsessing on all the woes of the world and trying to save everyone (their experience of Fi).
Dylan basically turned his back on that. And people were pissed because they considered him to be one of the best protest song writers on topics such as the marginalization of blacks and other minorities, the war in Vietnam (and war in general), and how the times were a-changing and a-coming for these masters of war to pay the price and all that. That is an INFJ in introverted feeling, which they have very strongly, but in a retrograde manner. In other words, introverted feeling threatens to pull an INFJ back into a more infantile state of existence. I have written about this in my Fi in INFJ article in the INFJ section. I call it the “id function” of an INFJ. And yes, it is not generally known about.
This is why I generally advise INFJs that are stuck in introverted feeling, which would be their great feeling of helplessness in the wake of all the suffering of the world (and themselves), to engage their extraverted feeling auxiliary (which many of them have not).
Dylan is a great archetypal/mythological example of the INFJ story. His life very aptly illustrates the beginning point for an INFJ (Fi) and the move away from it towards Fe. The dominant Ni is neither a beginning or an end point but more a thing that just always is. It is counter-intuitive to many INFJs because they think they have to go deeper and deeper into their “doing the right thing” mode (Fi).
No, they have to get the hell out of that mode and make the move towards extraverted feeling (being more superficial and expressive). Once they do this then they will be on path to get to their beloved introverted thinking tertiary, which basically amounts to them getting a final understanding and definite answer about why there is all this suffering in the world and themselves etc.
So, what you said in your previous comment contradicts with your typing of Dylan as an ISFP. You basically described in the above quote a preponderance of extraverted feeling in Dylan over introverted feeling. And yes, that is the way it should be for an INFJ, even if that is not often the way it is for them because of their getting mired in their id function of Fi.
Hey, you know something about astrology, right? Well, the move from Fi to Fe for an INFJ is the equivalent of moving from the moon to the sun in astrology. The auxiliary function is the path of the sun in many ways.
We see fe and fi differently.
Before I go on, I just want to clarify that i get all types have emotions, think thoughts, use their own concept of logic and rationale. These things are simply perceived and interacted with differently according to the cognitive functions being used
I see fe as more about the doing the right thing in general, whether it is for your family and friends, community, or the whole world. This ‘right’ thing is worked out in almost a utilitarian fashion, taking into account (and often taking responsibility for) all the people that will be effected. And then the individual’s fe vision is implemented outwards into the world. For fe users, it is almost like being compelled to effect/affect/direct. This can be inspiring and world changing. It can throw a great party, it can run a harmonious and welcoming home. It can be all inclusive and One. When processed and expressed in an unhealthy way, it is inflicted on other and not inclusive or democratic. Fe can ignore what individuals want for the sake of whats better for the group. It can be manipulative, overbearing, controlling, authoritative, fascist, and tyrannical. It can reject other individuals and groups completely and go strongly in separation mode- us against them thinking. Fe can cripple families, start wars, engage terrorism and commit genocides.
Fe is more concerned about the group, generalities, group dynamics, consensus, cooperation, harmony. It differentiates between ‘appropriate’ emotions and feelings and non ‘appropriate’ emotions and feelings. Fe is more invested in getting involved and getting ‘into’ other people. Places like community centres, many volunteer groups, and politics is full of fe and te types like esfj, enfj, infj, isfj, estp, estj, istj
Doing the right thing means something different from a fe or fi perspective. Fe types often cant help but be invested into the group outcome, or their own personal vision for the group.
I see fi’s version of ‘doing the right thing’ as very different. Fi is concerned about what is right and wrong, and can spend a lot of time thinking about this. Fi cares a lot about what is right or feels best for the self. It can be oblivious or non caring about what other people want or care about. Even the empathy of fi self absorbed in that it is more about how the fi person would feel in a certain situation than true understanding of the other person’s experience. Fi is more morally determined and rigid. Fe types are much more likely be morally ambiguous or relative depending on the group’s position and the situation than fi types are. Fi is more likely to do what feels right and good to them and be truly individualist, even revelling in their uniqueness, specialness and individuality. They like to stand out and be different. Not necessarily because they are making any statement against society or culture, but simply because they feel like it. They are more likely to respect others specialness and uniqueness. Less likely to understand or appreciate generalities or to be driven to effect and affect cultural change, less crazy eyed than fe types. Fi types are drawn to activism for different reasons than fe types, and these two types might find it hard to reach consensus.
Fe is concerned with effecting and affecting people and the environment, as it relates to self and the group. Similar to Te. This is why fe and te people can be more selfless, although tend to be more controlling.
Fi is more concerned about experiencing and exploring emotion, mostly as it relates to the self. This is similar to ti exploring and experiencing thought and logic. Fi focuses on feelings and uses this inner world to create a value based system and vision that is implemented within the self. Fi will generally not be driven to force its vision onto another or its environment, but it can become very judgemental towards people who are seen as bad according to its value system. Fi is more likely to be passive aggressive as a means to avoid conflict. Fi is also more likely to make value judgements ascribed to the person rather than the person’s environment. Fi people can be more selfish, although they are less controlling. In healthy expression, fi users can assist others in a non judgemental way to change their inner self and be more positive and grounded….like Carl Rogers, the father of counselling. Healthy fi is pure indiviudual spirituality- being in touch and responsible for yourself
Clearly fe and fi are more complex than this, i’m only describing one tiny but important aspect here, and this aspect can manifest differently in certain circumstances. And I would like to clarify that there is no ‘right’ thing. It all is what it is. People just see the ‘right’ thing differently.
And in regards to dylan changing his music style or playing electric….i dont see how that has anything to do with ‘doing the right thing’. Who cares?
you said-
“I believe that INFJs are more immature and unhealthy when they are obsessing on all the woes of the world and trying to save everyone (their experience of Fi). ”
Yes that is immature and unhealthy. But I think what you described is unhealthy fe and ti. Fe types can be more focused on the general emotional climate than their own emotions and feelings. They are destroyed by the pain of others because they tend to take responsibility for others. Although emotionally expressive, they are more likely to be private about their inner feelings. They turn it all around on you. They are more likely to understand how you feel than how they feel. They are sometimes utterly unaware of what they feel. They sometimes cant differentiate their emotion from the groups. They are a sponge. In many ways, they are emotionally retarded when it comes to the self.
In my experience and observations, infj develop fi as they mature. They become more in touch with themselves and self caring. They learn to set better boundaries. They try to feel and understand their own emotions more fully. They stop suppressing negative emotions. And then they get that balance between fe and fi, just as mature ifps get a better balance.
That balance between these quotes:
Fe- “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter”- Martin Luther King Jr
Fi- “Be the change you wish to see in the world”- Ghandi
and i’m sorry…i realise that ive crapped on again
Name me off some people who you think are INFJs. That might help us get a better handle on this. Otherwise, this whole conversation about which functions are responsible for what gets too abstract to be understood. Also, name me off some people that you think are ISFPs too. Give me five of each that you are relatively certain are these two types, if possible.
infj-
Cate Blanchett
Leonard Cohen
Marilyn Manson
Elanor Roosevelt
Rudolf Steiner
Rumi
Teal Swan (Teal Scott)
Edward Bach
Osama Bin Laden
Hitler
isfp-
Jimmi Hendrix
Lana Del Ray
Michael Jackson
Marie Antoinette
Eminem (has istp facade)
Dita Von Teese
Audrey Hepburn
How does Dylan fit better on a list that has Michael Jackson and Eminem on it, than one that has Leonard Cohen on it?
Don’t throw Michael Jackson in the bucket with those ‘S’ guys. He was an INFJ. Listen to him talking to Glenda on YouTube. The intonation patterns, the speech flow… Later on in life, his use of sophisticated words, he displayed a good ability to speak out if not pressured by media/audience, etc. That’s only one example of him being INFJ-ish. He simply turned into a very different person on stage. In real life, stubborn, perfectionistic, idealistic, complicated, creative… Life for him seemed to go in reverse, the Benjamin Button effect, and it’s a very distinctive sign of an INFJ, no matter what his/her childhood was like. Old at young age, young at an old age. 100% INFJ, maybe with a strong S, though, that can be possible.
No INFJ could gain the level of control that MJ had over his body. And since he is most known for his dancing, I highly suspect that he is an ISFP as Charlene suggests. Another similar instance of this level of body control would be Bruce Lee who I would also class as ISFP. Many ISFPs are shy, sensitive, insightful, perfectionist and so on. But, neither of those guys have a dominant Ni orientation with all the implications of Se at the inferior. Quite the contrary, they both had an extraordinary gift with Se that could be consciously controlled. Also, no Ti tertiary for either. Tertiary functions are highly noticeable. So, what you are seeing is Ni tertiary from MJ. Fi dominant and Ni tertiary together mimic many of the traits of INFJ. There is some overlap between these two types. I will grant you that.
Hi Blake. Could you comment on why many prominent INFJ artists appear to be ambivalent to accolades/fame? Dylan’s reaction (or lack thereof) to the Nobel Prize for Literature for instance would be the latest and highest-profile example (also most relevant to this post!) Frank Ocean as well, disregarding The Grammy’s. The entire career of pseudonymous author Elena Ferrante. The list could goes on. What is it about INFJs that causes them to close themselves off to recognition? And is it a good or bad thing that they do, in your opinion? Thanks!
INFJs are very private people. They are also creative. So, the combination of those two things has them generally let their work stand in for them. However, they don’t necessarily have anything to say about their work or the meaning of it past a certain point.
Now, if you weren’t a famous INFJ, you might not understand that. But, I think if an INFJ becomes famous and recognized they quickly find out what a drag it is to be asked the same questions over and over again upon which they have nothing further to say.
I know in Dylan’s case that he had a nervous breakdown in 1967 at the height of his fame. People were treating him like a messiah and like the answer to life lay encoded in the meaning of his songs.
And to him, it was like these were just bunch of songs he wrote to cope with the world around me, to express something. What that something was could be different to any given person.
So, he wanted to be left alone because he didn’t have anything to say about that or many of the other things that people would ask him about. And he wanted to make a buck. I think Dylan would have been happy just to be a working artist that could support themselves doing something he loved, and something that he just had to do. Dylan just had to make music.
Adding all these other layers and complications to that basic drive is a mindfuck, especially if you attain significant recognition.
INFJs are not among the types most likely to enjoy the scrutiny and exposure of fame. I think they see it as rather pointless and empty beyond a certain point. I think an INFJ desires to do good work and attain some degree of respect and appreciation for it, but when it becomes about these outside agencies that think you deserve a reward for that work, well, that can be a bit insulting I think.
Because your supposed to be grateful right? Because we officially bestow upon you this objective award of your greatness in your field.
Well, I think a person like Dylan would think, “Well, who the fuck are you?” Meaningless.
Is that a good or bad thing?
I don’t know. Depends on your values and who you are.
This makes me think about a picture I recently saw that had a very photoshopped quality to it. I guess Bob Dylan is now into making art gates. He welds these enormous metal gates, and sometimes they go up somewhere, but it seemed that a lot of the time he also just… works on these large metal gates, because he has to.
It seems to me that an artist of the Dylan variety is both an artisan and a channel for the flow. Like I think ancient Greeks would have understood that his genius is about being able to open himself to a semi-mystical flow state so he can bring forth the song or the gate or whatever it is. The object is really immaterial, it’s about the state of flow. It isn’t about, you know, sitting down and “hard work” or intentionally settling on a theme or whatever people typically ask about. “Where did the inspiration from this song come from?” I can imagine that those questions would be unnerving if you’re cheerful and infuriating if you’re highly cranky like Bob seems to be. (I love him.)
“So, you are right, by your own lights. Dylan was using more extraverted feeling than introverted feeling, at least in his prime-era songs. When he started out as a folk-song writer he was using more introverted feeling. But, then he turned his back on that whole tradition, in the process pissing a lot of the people in that movement off when he “went electric” and basically became a popular and hip rock musician.
Well, that has INFJ written all over it. INFJs often start out at introverted feeling and (if healthy), make the move towards extraverted feeling. That is the INFJ path of growth, believe it or not. I believe that INFJs are more immature and unhealthy when they are obsessing on all the woes of the world and trying to save everyone (their experience of Fi).”
^
I think Dylan is describing exactly this moving from Fi to Fe in this interview –
https://youtu.be/2WENXCJqpDk?t=1m1s
But he seems disappointed by it, referring to it as a “magical thing” he can no longer tap into. “A different kind of penetrating magic.”
I see this evolution in Alanis Morissette (also INFJ) with Jagged Little Pill, which seems like the most heavy and emotionally raw album she’s created. She commented on her artistic growth saying, “I had the choice to repeat Jagged Little Pill, or evolve. I chose to evolve.”
It seems like an odd, reverse artistic-progress for INFJs. The heaviest and most emotionally raw stuff comes out immediately, and as we learn to not take life and ourselves so seriously we become pop stars. xD
I think the most beautiful end goal for me would just be complete integration – a holistic combination of all of it, rather than distinct stepping stones.
Or maybe that’s just a mood disorder…
I think Dylan is describing exactly this moving from Fi to Fe in this interview –
No, Dylan is describing the (inevitable?) loss of the highest peaks of inspired writing in his journey as an artist. That’s not the loss of Fi and the move into Fe (for an INFJ). An INFJ in their highest peaks of inspired creation will be using Fe to an extreme (which they should and Dylan did, so he is an excellent example). It’s just that can’t be sustained forever. Dylan is describing the loss of that peak inspiration, which is not to say that he isn’t still inspired, but, not like he was when he hit that peak (in the mid-1960s) when the words and music were writing themselves through him. That IS the magic of Fe for an INFJ (with Ni driving/backing the whole process). That’s the flow I talk about for INFJ. Dylan achieved that at a very high level. That is Fe, make no mistake.
Fi is an INFJ in their depths more than their heights. It has more of a meager and scarce quality to it (for INFJ). Dylan shows that too, but, more in his earlier folk-era works. When he broke with the folk tradition to experiment and take a creative risk, he was being led by that wave of Fe that an INFJ needs to learn to trust and ride on to where it will take them. In Dylan’s case, it took him to the heights of creative expression where the words and the music were coming to him and through him as if by magic.
He is talking here about the recession of the main wave of magic that carried him to those heights of creative inspiration. He can still catch waves of magic, but, he knows that he has ridden that main wave that took him to the heights of his genius. If you get to that point, you’ll know where you peaked.
And you’ll know that you aren’t likely to catch another wave like that because of two things: waves like that are unusual and if you have already ridden one to your fullest potentials, there is no need to catch another. It’s exhausting to ride (to the extent that Dylan did. He is one of the most prolific songwriters in history). Anyway, Dylan peaked in 1966/67 with Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde. He will never be that inspired or good again. On the other hand, most artists never reach that peak in the first place. Dylan is rare for that.
And he is an excellent example of the INFJ type that has used the full potentials of the Fe auxiliary magic I am constantly testifying and insisting on for INFJs that are blocked, depressed, and stuck in endless analysis.
Ah ok, that makes sense! Thanks for your insights! 🙂
Blake, your articles on Fe are themselves magic. I’m wondering, though, whether Fe for INFJs and perhaps the aux. function in general either blindly or impulsively channeled might somehow hijack a person’s personality for the worse? Going by the assumption that Brian Wilson (of The Beach Boys) is INFJ, for example, perhaps Fe was what contributed to his breakdown and years-long creative fallow period. He capitulated to other people during his peak, silencing himself for what he thought was the good of the group. (And losing himself quite literally, I think, in the process.) Listening to the Smile Sessions now, my heart breaks as to what a ’60s version might have sounded like, though it is certainly a testament to his strength of creative drive that he was able to finish it at all.
Fe in INFJ seems to represent both the bane and the basis of an INFJ’s existence. There is the desire not to make waves and subsequently your day-to-day life harder. But then there is the need to empty out. Would it not be uncommon for INFJs to develop a sort of distrust or antipathy toward the entire exercise of connecting to other humans, via art or otherwise, based on negative and discouraging experiences in the social realm? Wilson said that in his twenties, working on Smile was “killing him.” I’d like to know why. Part of me thinks it was his Fe prioritizing others’ happiness over his own and what greater society would deem his indulgences. Did he have a choice? It seems like a lifelong challenge if not impossibility for most INFJs to know what aspects of Fe to embrace and which to discard when what they really need is to go their own way. Fe may be what holds them back.
Do you think Wilson is INFJ? Now I’m questioning it. Either his Ni was very weak back then or he let it fuck with him to his detriment. Or maybe Ni is the fuck-with-you function by definition. As an INFJ, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I’m not certain what type Brian Wilson is, but, I’m almost completely certain he isn’t an INFJ. No Ni, exactly.
However, yes, there is mucho Fe expression in the works of Brian Wilson.
I’ve thought alternately that Wilson was an ESFJ, ENTP, and ISFJ. I tend to think he is an ISFJ currently because of the massive pop/melodic gift he has. He’s similar to Paul McCartney in that way and very much in the same vein (Si over Ni). Roy Orbison comes to mind too.
Assuming he is an ISFJ, and that they too have this similar Fe magic at the auxiliary (albeit with Si backing), it doesn’t mean that this Fe magic can be used indefinitely and with total impunity. Any function position, no matter how strong, can be overdrawn, and a person as prolific as Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan, no matter how gifted and magical they are in Fe, will reach a limit with it.
Obviously, any of these legendary people in the arts are quite unusual…period.
So, yes, a person that has gifted and strong Fe can still overtax their reserves of it and fuck themselves (so to speak).
And yes, Wilson’s proclivities to Fe may have allowed him to prioritize others happiness over his own. Fe likes to please, especially in ISFJ. ISFJ’s has that pop appeal and gift. They like to please the masses. That is what pop music means. It’s popular. Fe has that pop gift the most, especially in the auxiliary and especially for ISFJ. INFJ is likely to be in the business of making more challenging and difficult things (via the Ni fuck-with-you function) more palatable via their Fe aux. expression.
I think Brian Wilson always wanted to please more or less and he wanted to do it in more grandiose and multilayered ways. That kind of vision he had for Smile by no means has to be an Ni type of vision. It could be the vision of the perfect pop masterpiece.
The Beach Boys themes were always kind of Si in nature. Pleasing of the senses. Repast. Relaxation. Peace. Good times. Good vibrations!
🙂
Man, i’ll totally have to speak with you in a more sophisticated setting with regard to sensory architecture (consult, i mean consult). But I’m in transition of some sort & i’m watching it unfold. No wait, I’m not watching it unfold. I unfold. I’m the unfolding. ‘Chased, thrilled, and altered’
I wanted to say I wish you’d write more ENTP-INFJ some time. i think i can feel there’s something wavy trying to get out. grime and groove, rad and rot, woe and whoa, so please write more, I miss you. also turns out i have actual adhd (walked into psych services on a whim wander). hey, maybe that’s why i used to get kicked out of libraries and failed out of 2 universities. but then when I got depressed i’d get kicked out of my head (can’t say ‘own head’, i’m more of super here). now i’m not in the swamp but on the shores again, standing in the sun idiot savant (i see myself and one of my eyes is turned inward in grief [emerald], the other practically popping out with pep [cerulean], you know?). one thing i can feel with such clarity is that I GUESS i nearly killed myself through self-restraint. i thought if i’d just stand still i’d see it (even though i already saw it but i forgot). and then recently i realised that i was committing maybe a celestial crime by keeping myself in that rigor vivis, and at once i saw all the textures of error in it, as in technical error, which was disgusting. so i thought: whatever, i’ll press play and see what happens (you can’t ask ‘why?’ all the time and not be chasing it: that’s why i love rivers and lakes give me a dull ache, the years i spent at the bottom of one.. rivers = not ever doing same thing twice, i.e. alive). and now it’s like for the first time in my conscious life i can feel the air and the sunlight, and my ex-lusts are suddenly a turnoff, and i can’t even feel anything about that. but i know you get it, so won’t elaborate.
i guess i’m INFJ with Gemini and a dopamine issue. maybe i’m whatever Infinite Jest is (sad and not).
maybe you could write about David Foster Wallace..who was the ENTP-INFJ hybrid (in appearance) par excellence?
I challenge you, bring on those triangulations
you’re the gem/jam, etc
maybe you could write about David Foster Wallace..
Yes, I have been tempted to do so. He was quite an interesting fellow, to say the least.