Personally, I don’t think ENTPs exist.
No, what is more likely is that they are beamed down from above and what we are seeing is some kind of sophisticated hologram of a person. They resemble people in all their aspects; talking, motioning, notioning, walking, breathing, eating, and talking, talking, talking.
God, do ENTPs ever shut up? These buggers can talk for ever and ever and ever without the slightest clue that you might actually want to get up, walk away, go to a quiet place by yourself, and having a fucking aneurysm.
That is, unless they have developed their lovely auxiliary introverted thinking. This is what I call the ENTP’s Gemini function. This slows them down a bit and forces them to rail themselves in on a logic train. It kind of puts them in a halter of sorts, which, they are in any event, happy to chug away in. Doesn’t stop them too much but have you seen those ENTPs that are locked into their dominant extraverted intuition with tertiary extraverted feeling? O, god, they just go on and on and on; effusively, imaginatively, obtusely, excitedly, in manic hyperbole mode.
I’ve seen many ENTPs like this and they make some of the greatest standup comedians because of their huge field of insight combined with their huge field of expression. They contort, wriggle, wax indignant, wax ecstatic and wax on down to the town of clowns. Huge hilarity. And a complete obliviousness to everything around them.
It was like ENTP was made before objects existed. And like I said I don’t think ENTPs exist. They are light beams taken material form.
But, the primary gift they have is the ability to question things as if no one had ever had a thought or opinion about those very things before. ENTPs have the gift of logic and they use it to question the primary and assumed grounds of everything.
What I mean is just because something is accepted as common knowledge by well, everyone in the entire fucking world, that somehow doesn’t mean a damn thing to an ENTP. This is the opposite of say how an average SJ type operates, those authority and institution seeking sensation-judging types who only accept something as real or true because the church, god, science, or some authority said it is so and they have said that it is so for a very long time. That is what truth is to an xSxJ type, that some big group of people that have power in society have said something for a very long time.
Well, that doesn’t mean diddly-dick to an ENTP. An ENTP might have just might as well arrived fresh off a banana boat from Timbuktu and know nothing at all. They have a particular gift for being impervious to conditioning. This attitude even extends all the way back to their beloved mother (god help her). Nope, ENTPs don’t have that natural bond to anyone based on sheer blood ties, even the deepest ones. They would just prefer it if she shut the fuck up and got them another glass of milk, thank you very much. Well, maybe not the girl ENTPs. I mean, they are girls, and girls are nice, sugar and spice, temperament types aside.
And you know what all this comes down to?
It comes down to things. I mean go read any Dr. Seuss Book. A child could understand it. What is he talking about? He is talking about the world of things. There are fish. Some are red and some are blue and some don’t have a clue as to what to do. Some are fat. Some are thin. Some are full of sin. And some like to wear big yellow hats. What’s the fucking difference? Its things baby. In different combinations. As many different combinations as you care to put them in. Well, that is Gemini. That is the playground of the ENTP.
And what do all these things amount to?
Words, that’s what. Well, yeah, there are names for all of them. So, we can dispense with the actual things referred to and have ourselves a fucking field day. Because in reality, most fish don’t wear yellow hats. But, in a book they can. And one can draw a picture of a fish with a yellow hat.
There! Fish with yellow hats exist. In imagination to be sure. But, that counts, because they could exist because I can conceive of a thing called “fish” and I can also conceive of a thing called “hat”. And yellow things, I can conceive of those too. In fact, I have seen all of them before in some way in reality. And so we are being introduced to a little thing called extraverted intuition. There are the things that do exist in physical space and the things that could exist in the same physical space. The latter is extraverted intuition. ENTPs could care less about what currently exists. That’s boring. As a matter of fact if something does exist in physical space, then, to an ENTPs contrarian nature, it might as well not exist. How dare things have the temerity to exist? How obvious. How trite.
This is the sense you get when you are reading a Dr. Seuss book. “Why are they this way and not another? I don’t know go ask your mother.” Like, who cares? You’ll never find out this way anyway. It is like accepting at the outset that words are just playthings that don’t really have any hope of getting at primal realities of things. So, let’s use them like whores and for fun. And who knows, on the way, maybe they’ll indicate some kind of truth too, some kind of truth about the way people use language (and the way they are structured in some way) and all the silly things they think they are doing with it. That’s what I see in ENTPs, this kind of total acceptance and ironic detachment at the outset. And from there they kind of move into the beauty of language as a surface or esthetic phenomenon.
That is their Gemini thing. They don’t orient their egos by it (dominant function), so they have a field day with it. “Ready, here come all the things” It’s fun and celebratory. Dr. Seuss.
This thing is like that, this one has a yellow hat. That type of total irreverence and mockery of any deep meanings. And the rather indifferent recombination of things into new arrangements. It doesn’t matter that this one has a yellow hat. It was just used for effect in that moment. And that is the extraverted feeling tertiary function too. It’s in effect saying, “Look at how silly and unserious it all is, a profusion of multivariate things in different arrangements. How fun.” The colors, the adjectives, the nouns with the adjective, the opposites (this one is fat, this one is thin, this one is sad, this one is bad. Why are they sad, and glad, and bad? I don’t know, go ask your dad) ENTPs don’t care why it is so. They more just amp it up, celebrate it with the primacy of a child, chuckle at it, make fun of it, amuse themselves and others with it. Who cares?
Dr. Seuss also has no morals in the stories. ENTPs don’t care about morals. They care about fun with words that indicate things and don’t even care about the things those words denote themselves (the true reality they are referring to in a concrete sense). No, it is much easier to juggle two two-ton elephants on a telephone wires in language than in reality.
See how ENTPs get away with stuff? Dr. Seuss books are some of the most popular children’s books and they got away with regarding parents as superfluous objects of an obscene nature.
Dr. Seuss shows an innate irreverence towards parents. Hop on pop. Go ask your mother. Do you think your mother will mind if we bring this beastly creature into the basement? Who cares? Mom is so lame anyway. No fun.
ENTPs just want fun. They have fun in the realm of truth. It is like they totally make fun of the whole realm of reality. They treat it like a thing that they are totally exempt from.
You know what the morals of Dr. Seuss books are? Have fun. Try new things even if you think you wouldn’t like it based on your common sense. And try it in new combinations. With a fox, in a box, in a house, on a train, what are you, vain. And don’t linger too long. Don’t get caught up on this or that thing. New things are on their way. New combinations. Maybe one of them will suit you. How would you know? Have you tried it?
Socrates was like that. “O, so you think you know? Well, what about this? Do you know that? Well, what about the this of that, do you know about that?” And it is all in a non-know-it-all, non-condescending spirit. They are just kind of playfully jesting about as if to say, “I don’t know, maybe it is so, let’s poke around a little bit to see if that holds any water.” ENTPs are relatively non-emotionally invested in whether anything is true or not. They just kind of play around in the realm of truth. They aren’t that attached to any particular outcome and in some ways are the most unbiased and purely objective type possible. And it is because they don’t care what the truth is, whether it is this way or that, yet they have an extraordinary ability to find truth without even trying. As a natural mode, they just question the primal grounds upon which accepted truths are based on. For fun. Not in a spirit of having to prove that their model is better than anyone else’s. If it is, it is. They don’t have a personal attachment to being right. It is more of an impersonal playing about with objects, truths, words, models, human foibles and errors.
ENTPs are rather like the universe in a sense. There is something wholly non-personal, non-subjective about them. As if they were the universe and all they had to do was look inside themselves for the truth of things and objects. And it is like they live in that universe and so have no investment in the world and because of this can treat it with utter detachment and play.
Yes, there is something about the concept of things. And the stand-in for those things in the form of words. They are like jugglers and clowns with words and things. ENTPs are empty space itself. And anything that happens to inhabit that virgin space is up for grabs in some way. It’s like, “O, you want to exist, well, okay, let’s put you over here and we’ll put this over there, and this one has a yellow hat, and the other has a yellow bat. OK, cool. Hey, objects are fun. Let’s try this now…” And so on.
ENTPs are at play with the whole world of things. Man created or otherwise. And it is possible that all objects are man-created conceptual entities anyway. And that empty space is the only truly objective thing possible.
And, as ENTP author Douglas Adams says in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
“Space is big, really big, you just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big space is. I mean, you may think it is a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts compared to space.”
And that is where the ENTP irreverence comes from. Shit, space is mostly empty for interstellar mile after interstellar mile. What do they care if you populate it with a few silly things here and there? It is still their universe and ENTPs, being the innately generous souls that they are, don’t want to be some sort of pigs of space.
Well, maybe they do. But, in any event they are laissez-faire pigs of space, which means that while they may have dibs by birth rite to all the space in existence, they don’t mind how that space gets populated by things, words, people, or fish in yellow hats. I’d say that’s a pretty fair deal, wouldn’t you?
wow. I feel – exposed … this, for example: it’s so intimate and true
“ENTPs are rather like the universe in a sense. There is something wholly non-personal, non-subjective about them. As if they were the universe and all they had to do was look inside themselves for the truth of things and objects. And it is like they live in that universe and so have no investment in the world and because of this can treat it with utter detachment and play.
Yes, there is something about the concept of things. And the stand-in for those things in the form of words. They are like jugglers and clowns with words and things. ENTPs are empty space itself. And anything that happens to inhabit that virgin space is up for grabs in some way. It’s like, “O, you want to exist, well, okay, let’s put you over here and we’ll put this over there, and this one has a yellow hat, and the other has a yellow bat. OK, cool. Hey, objects are fun. Let’s try this now…” And so on.
And that is where the ENTP irreverence comes from. Shit, space is mostly empty for interstellar mile after interstellar mile. What do they care if you populate it with a few silly things here and there? It is still their universe and ENTPs, being the innately generous souls that they are, don’t want to be some sort of pigs of space.
Well, maybe they do. But, in any event they are laissez-faire pigs of space, which means that while they may have dibs by birth rite to all the space in existence, they don’t mind how that space gets populated by things, words, people, or fish in yellow hats. ”
on the other hand … of course I loved your description about having fun & relaxed attitude to norms etc., and of course there’s a lot of truth in it. you describe it through a set of metaphors & language games to create an effect. so, without saying your conclusions are not true (taken cum grano salis, they are … I can relate to almost every single word you wrote here), I nevertheless feel the urge to protest against the claim that ENTPs don’t care about morals. I think there’s a deeply rooted sense of good and evil, but 1) it’s relational (mediated through Fe function): “you shouldn’t do thinks that hurt people (well, at least not good, well-meaning people)”, “you should respect & love others *just as* you like & respect yourself (which may mean: apply the same irreverence and disregard for personal interests which you apply to yourself :))”, and 2) it’s always subject to second-questioning and detached reflection (Ti) … so, this creates a certain tension between a morality that seems an elusive and extremely complex system (Ti), and a deeply felt need for social harmony & justice (Fe), which a classical ENTP would himself disrupt by his irreverence 🙂
so, I guess that ENTPs tend to understand morality at a deeper level, as a basic set of rules of common decency … while at the same time understanding that, like every phenomenon related to human interaction, it’s much more complex than that … but I don’t think we can really identify with anything that goes beyond a simple “just be a good person, ok?”
so, I think the contradiction comes from this: on one hand, a very simple, rudimentary, yet extremely strong personal moral code, while on the other hand the enjoyment in the complex universe of complicated moral codes & norms (which we can even like … but in the way you like partaking in an elaborate play or a costume party)
Hi there Luka. Regarding morality in the ENTP, I think you are right to call it relational morality that is mediated through the Fe function. Perhaps this means situational morality, I don’t know. All I can say is that ENTPs exhibit a refreshing obliviousness to other people’s deeply held values. I think this is necessary when people or situations get too mired in being so nice and considerate that it kills all the life energy of the proceeds.
Also, I don’t perceive most ENTPs as being immoral. In a way, they seem exempt from the whole moral situation and seem to rise above it as a general rule. For example, in matters of love and desire and all the terrible perpetrations that can happen in the wake of these feelings, ENTPs seem to just somehow be above base desires.
In regards to society, ENTPs tend to have a good understanding of how to conduct themselves so as to be a reasonable citizen, so to speak. They are aware of the rules and laws of society and can see the necessity for such things. They, for example, are not anarchists. But, nor do they believe in centralized power structures. They believe in the maximum freedom for the individual that does not impinge on the freedoms of other people.
Common decency is a good way to put it. ENTPs just seem to know all these things about how to instinctively regulate their conduct so as not to trample all over other people as a general principle.
When they do trample all over other people, it is more in the manner of a complete obliviousness to people, animals, and especially their mother’s sensitivities. Whatever an ENTP does to harm other people, you can hardly say it is with an intent to harm. It is more that they can be a force of nature that is neither good nor bad.
Everything is true (not sure about situational though … too simple of a concept for an ENTP :)) … we’re always anthropologists in a foreign land … more than often, we deeply love our tribesmen, try to show respect for their weird habits (hey, we can find them even fun & fascinating), and mostly we love living among them and defending them from both external injustices and stupidities arising from their own systems of belief & social interaction. But thing is, we will never be from the same continent/race/culture: East is East and West is West and they shall never meet, nor shall ever meet the ENTP- and non-ENTP world 😉
But like any good anthropologist, we don’t believe we’re any better (despite the fact that we do, however, kind of know that our insight in the whole situation is better, more comprehensive, ‘truer’, if you will … but I wouldn’t say we take any claim of moral /personal superiority from it … cause we’re acutely aware of our hopelessness and know we’d eventually die in the jungle/Kalahari desert/Inuit iceland without the more base level, yet much more practical knowledge of our beloved tribesmen :))
Am an ENTP and Gemini. My life is shining as soon as I became true to my self. I want to start up my stand up comedy shows Any advice?
Yes. Invite a bunch of people to your living room. Stand up in front of them and act like yourself. Await laughter.
and this:
” It is like accepting at the outset that words are just playthings that don’t really have any hope of getting at primal realities of things. So, let’s use them like whores and for fun. And who knows, on the way, maybe they’ll indicate some kind of truth too, some kind of truth about the way people use language (and the way they are structured in some way) and all the silly things they think they are doing with it. That’s what I see in ENTPs, this kind of total acceptance and ironic detachment at the outset. And from there they kind of move into the beauty of language as a surface or esthetic phenomenon.”
wow, so true … but at the same time, not quite. if I may speak as an ENTP (hence, just an example of the species, not a spokesman for it), I think I’m a radical nominalist: words are just conventions, but conventions are not entirely arbitrary. I understand why you shouldn’t spit in public or wear a T-shirt at a wedding (something some ENTPs seem indeed oblivious to): these are conventions, hence completely arbitrary in their concrete historical/social manifestations, but they do point to something ‘deeper’, ie. something more fundamental to universally intelligible modes of human interaction (for example: you should show respect to others by exhibiting certain symbols that have been traditionally established for this purpose).
same with words: sure, they’re arbitrary, and sure, their use can mostly tell us something about ‘the way people use language’; however the way people use language can also tell us something more (say, about how people approached certain truths that are beyond language).
probably there’re many ENTPs that would be sceptical about these trans-linguistic and trans-cultural realities … this radical nominalism/relativism is where our cognitive functioning leads us (hence, you were right to point that out, since you’re dealing primarily with typology, not about its concrete manifestations), however, I feel the need to point out (mostly for other readers) that this doesn’t necessarily lead to a full-blown relativism or constant ironic detachment.
ENTPs certainly *are* capable of commitment, *do* rally behind a cause and *can* tenaciously defend a truth … I just guess that we don’t feel the need to lie to ourselves to do so, to make ourselves blind towards the flaws of our theory/belief/commitment/partner etc., or to denigrate all other options we leave out in order to do so. I guess we don’t have this nasty need that so many other people seem to, to construct this huge picture of reality / a value system to sustain once’s commitment.
there are many things in the universe, many values, many truths, many options, and sometimes you have to choose one. and sometimes this means fight another which may have quite good reasons on its own.
what I really really hate is when people need to defend their own views by shitting on others’ (I mean, I also shit on the view of others, if I find them shitty, but I can easily appreciate views that are completely contradicting my ideas) … the only thing that really frustrates me in this department, is when I *know* I’m right and I *know* the other’s wrong, and I can’t really prove it (I mean, I can invent pretty good approximate refutations, but I still know I haven’t proven myself right)
Hey blake, are you entp? Your writing is entp-ish.
Yemo gazzo wartolin.
Me canno figure, elp?
I mean, I don’t care what your type is…. it’s irrelevant. I just want to crack the code
Ha! It took me maybe 30 min but I got it! Your type. Am feeling quite clever now, But maybe it was that obvious already!! Well too bad, by God I was going to get that code figured out, is what I said. We are most definitely in good hands!!
INFJ’s are basically the version of this that instead of being above feelings and desires is somehow above common sense. They don’t seem to have any, and yet the grown up ones get around quite well.
INFJs in their highest manifestations will resemble ENTPs and vice-versa. Conversely, INFJs in their lowest manifestations will resemble ISFPs. The farthest you can get from an ENTP is an ISFP. The farthest you can get from an ISFP is an ENTP. So, if you are INFJ, you will be right in the middle between those two extremes of temperament.
ENTPs lack common sense as well. Remember Einstein?
Why would an INFJ resemble and ENTP in their highest manifestations? can you explain this in more detail? I am an INFJ and I do find I can at times act ENTPish, and I often find myself feeling a strange resonance with ENTP individuals. Can you explain why this is?
Hey Blake, I just discovered your website and am enjoying it too much. I don’t know if you’ve read anything by/know much about Oscar Wilde, but if so, would you consider him an ENTP? The incessant talking, natural hilarity, and the ingenious use of logic to question everything sounds very Wilde… thanks.
Yes, I am aware of Oscar Wilde to some extent. The Critic as Artist is one of the things by him that I dig and respect. Have to disagree that he is an ENTP type though. More likely an ENFP. Foppish, esthetical, dandy, original hipster. All things tending in the ENFP direction. Hilarity and incessant talking are things that an ENFP is capable of too. Wilde is also a Virgo rising and as such would have to be classed as a particularly intelligent and articulate ENFP. Virgo rising often lends an air of intellectual distinction to the romantic (NF) temperaments. Makes them a bit drier and discriminating than the typical romantic type. Makes them resemble NTs more.
So, that’s what I think about that.
I like how you say you are enjoying my site “too much.” Well, maybe you are mainlining it. I can cross the brain-blood barrier in seven seconds flat by that method. Try a tighter titration and a southern migration. The springtimes needed you. Etc.
yep, I agree with Blake: he doesn’t look as an ENTP to me. I don’t see any Ti with him … anywhere. plus, this tendency to make a point from personal style (dress, speech etc.): that’s not really an ENTP thing
Lol the plot thickens… So we’ve scratched ENTP off the list
I still vote for ENFP or ENFJ
Thanks for sharing your insights Blake. Very much bang on. As E/lNTP I found becoming familiar with the art of body language to be highly beneficial. Much recommended to those without it in their communication arsenal.
Becoming aware of body language layer was almost like gaining the ability to read minds and at the same time influence how I am perceived without saying a single word.. Very powerful as added layer of communication to verbal mode.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
“What I mean is just because something is accepted as common knowledge by well, everyone in the entire fucking world, that somehow doesn’t mean a damn thing to an ENTP. ”
I laughed when I read that and thought: “And why should it?”
Anyway I just discovered your blogs today and I’m eating them up. I started with ENTP: Least Likely to Be a Ninja – lol so true. Love it. And I do seem to have 10 angels with me at all times. I’m quite convinced of it.
Oooo buddy.. I am definitely not an ENTP ..though I must admit I am jealous of their seemingly lax and impervious ways. I read this article because of your (Blake’s) suggestion of ENTPs being the most suitable match for INFJ. I can definitely see how an ENTP can be INFJs breath of fresh air from the serious internal world we sometimes (most the time) lose ourselves in. However, I don’t see how these two would complement each other in a long term relationship.
It seems INFJ would grow frustrated with ENTPs nonchalant, impersonal and oblivious ways (and if they are so oblivious, how would they be the type to see through to the true hidden being of their INFJ partner? On the contrary, how would the INFJ’s self-centered, perfectionistic, complex and sensitive ways not bring out a world of impatience for the ENTP?
Though I do see how ENTP could handle INFJs in that they wouldn’t take their quirky and sometimes offensive ways to heart and would give them the (solitary) space necessary to live in their own world when needed, it seems ENTPs would need to question the hell out of INFJs as to why we are as weird and complicated as we are. Would they have the patience? And would we INFJs not be scared shitless of ENTP’s trait of detachment and oblivion?
Ultimately, I’d like to ask you (Blake) how you came to the conclusion that these two compliment each other.
Thanks! .. and I love your stuff btw.. (your INFJ: Least Likely to be Who You Think They Are article made me cry – it was way too close to home).
Anyhoo, thanks!
Go visit a planetarium sometime. Sit in the darkness of the domed room. Look at the central projector. Notice how you feel in the darkness gazing at a maze of stars. ENTP is this planetarium that INFJ yearns for. Contained in infinity.
I do get that and it is indeed refreshing… However, what is it about the ENTP that is better for INFJ than say an ENFP or ENTJ? On the flip-side, what do we INFJs bring to the ENTP?
Yep, I can relate to how an INFJ would be considered or typed by others as an ENTP…I’m an INFJ with a family that thinks I’m the silliest, smartest goofball they’ve ever come across who also lacks all common sense…It’s fun to chase the rabbit down the rabbit hole, even if no one else sees the rabbit! Could it be big, fatty Jupiter hanging out in Gemini in my third house??? who knows!
If only I felt less pressure to act a certain way in front of others (random strangers and/or friends (aka acquaintances))…oh well! pish posh apple sauce!
Love these articles and all of the discussions!
Yes, some INFJs can resemble ENTPs. Why? Because ENTPs are to the objective what INFJs are to the subjective.
” Because ENTPs are to the objective what INFJs are to the subjective.” Wow, that’s so well put!
but if we start from the other point of view and say “ENTPs are to the subjective what xxxx are to the objective” … what would xxxx be in this case? or it doesn’t work that way, since the ego function in the ENTP is extroverted, hence projected in the objective?
Right, you figured it out.
🙂
Oh Blake, I knew an ENTP once.
He was a decoction of ancient voids and infant meadows sparkling with timeless brio. And those birthmarks.
Not angel’s trumpets or devil’s trombones, and no Rilkean songs either, but jigsaw falling in undying patterns.
Quite stunning, really. Also knocked over everything in his path pretty much.
I’m guessing he could choose to not participate in temporal-spatial narratives we bathe in, but he did. He stared at people on buses, BEAMING. And his students too – he was a young American lit prof when I knew him. Too bad they don’t know a celestial nomad when they see one.
He was unaffected by my D minor demeanor, and it made me come forth. We played together for a short while, but he brought too much primary light into my spaces. I have this kink where I want to be held at arrow point by an archer. I keep seeing this in dreams. A pale archer with a silver longbow. No malevolence in him, rather he is the apollonian force that keeps the black waves in check. And I wish both to be guarded like this and to be eaten by blackness. My existence is contained in the tension between these two states more or less. Splendor and squalor. But he wouldn’t do it. And I don’t know why.
But yeah, my games suck, maybe that’s why.
So I retreated to the farthest heights I knew, which is a pain in the ass to descend from to begin with.
Well that guy could climb peaks and transcend fortifications like a motherfucker. All the while eating a fucking tuna sandwich. ENTPs man.
Pretty sure he now teaches at a uni in Hong Kong.
I don’t even know. I’ve been attracted to people, and this ENTP too, but while I empathized with all of them technically at physically uncomfortable levels I didn’t really ever give a shit at all. At all.
In all of my flings I’d either drive the person insane, or go mad myself, but after that darkest hour it doesn’t excite me anymore.
Yet it bugs me. I want to hack this so much, Blake. I want to relate to people for longer than a couple of weeks. At least tonight I do.
Your posts are desired and appreciated.
You’re a decoction of ancient voids! And the springtimes needed you child. Love your writing style.
Your games?
Yeah, it sounds to me like you have such a high and poetically perfect standard for your paramours that they will never be able to live up to it. You have a sort of script for them to follow in your head.
Hey, you know what, you should just resolve to be an artist. You have a highly refined and artistic nature that no mortal man could ever satisfy. You will test them and use them as material for your fancies.
And then you will insist that you want the heights but then you will remember how you love to be eaten in the darkness (or by the darkness). If they run to the heights to pursue you, you will run to the depths to elude them. If they come to the depths with you, they will drown in your endless undertows and currents. I think.
But, I could be wrong. I’m just sort of playfully/poetically answering your implied question.
O, be an artist child!
Then the archer will come of his own accord. Maybe.
Or that might change as you write your stories.
I advise to express your dilemmas instead of attempt to hack them, to solve them.
INFJs solve by remaining soluble in the solution. Dig?
Always lovely to hear from you. I think you need a poet. A highly poetic and somewhat distant and muse-like romance. You probaly want to be a muse. And you know the job of muses- to remain always out of reach. To inspire from a distance, whether that be in the heights or the depths.
So, keep writing in your beautiful language. That will go somewhere good.
You know, I think I make use of this script with no intention but to provoke.
To dare them to call my bluff. To be for once led on or outwitted. To relinquish control in a slow gesture of serene irreversible surrender. And to want to flee from a fixed interpretation and not be able to. I sublimate this via sex, obviously. So thank Asmodeus for ESFPs, Fe and whisky.
And still I only manage to luxuriate in the arousal for like 5 minutes. While his hand is on my knee, and I’m watching the streetlights melt into the sweet night. The promise is there, the promise of finding a detached sensuality that I so long for. But I sense invariably this dumb (but often pretty) need to conquer the body, and no higher ambition in them. Murder, symbolic or otherwise, or any other flavor of true possession is inconceivable. What a tasteless waste of time, I know. I got a job and all into which I pour all the shape-shifting soothing charm I’ve got, but when I come home I wanna be fucking therapeutically owned. To be seen. And move on. And since I know that’s not an option, I trade empathy for sociopathy. I get glassy-eyed.
Maybe that is why I give off the impression of wanting to be a muse. Muses, however slick, are objects. Perhaps this is a plea for a taste of the world outside of the self, coming from the psyche’s lower levels. It excites me to I know I stir someone’s heart. But what I’m insanely drawn to is the idea of having my own heart stirred uniquely and fatally, and then exploring that damage. I’ve been fucked up by beauty, and I want to see a human doing this. But who could pull off that kind of thing?
It’s true INFJs need waves. But seismic ones. Such that their entire architecture is threatened, and they are forced to manifest.
Sorry for being so verbose. I never actually discussed any of the above with anyone, but since each of us is many, it’s not unlike a symposium innit. And thank you for helping me tailor this person suit. I wonder what sidereal currents you’re borne on tonite. May they be tender and bleak in your preferred proportions.
d also with Fe I recently saw with great clarity just how intensely independent it is in its operation. It’s armor, but fluid, teasing, lulling, luring, laudanum or a sparkling tonic full of undeclared ingredients, impeccably yet effortlessly presented, chiaroscuro and all. Induced perceptions. And I’ve no idea whatsoever what its agenda is. Or if it’s innocently unconscious. You’re right, it makes one gently invisible, elusive and smoke-like. One waits for someone with eyesight keen enough to spot the inconsistency, or utter the magic words that open a hundred locks on a hundred doors.
Because one is always tempted to reveal oneself and yet somehow already annoyed, already disenchanted.
And this is what disturbs me, Blake. I rarely notice Fe when it operates, but in my heart I feel this great dissociation. I know that the way I present in the world, all my personas, some highly functioning others abandoned, are totally separate from me. They are meaningfully constructed, and easy to maintain. But it feels like what I am can’t take any comprehensible form. But it wants to. It covets material evidence of its existence. From possessions to theses to lovers. Or deliberate lack thereof. Which I find vaguely disgusting yet it’s the only thing I know. Can it be pathological? Where does INFJ end and dissociative personality disorder begin?
I don’t really want to get lost in myself. It seemed like an exquisite game when I was 16, and it does now in a way but is there anything beyond that? I am frightened sometimes. Jung would say I’m regressing into the subconscious.
This July I read Kierkegaard and thought I was solidifying. But now all disparate again. Maybe it’s the Fall in MN, it’s too bright and lucid.
Does this sound schizophrenic or INFJ? Or something else? If you have any thoughts on this, I’d truly love to hear them.
Do be well.
Why don’t write more about ENTPs? I love reading about you guys
I’m putting this question here because ENTP’s can be comedians and he may be one. I am pretty sure Dylan Moran has Ne top two. But I’d dearly love your thoughts on his type. He is in Black Books, Crackers and does stand up. I admire his ‘tude, but it is more than that. He says what I can’t.
My dear thoughts on the topic are that Dylan Moran is an ENFP. So, yes, obviously Ne is agoing there bigtime. But, Ti and Te aren’t. Many ENFPs can be recognized by their ampiness, volubility, over-the-topness, hilarity, wigginess and…cynicism. Irony.
ENTPs, of course, are quite similar, but, have a certain dryness of wit. To give examples of ENTP standup comics I would cite George Carlin (first and foremost), Bill Hicks, and Tom Green. Also, Conan O’ Brien.
ENFP comics: Eddie Izzard (“executive transvestite”), Robin Williams (very ENFP), Ashton Kutcher (dude, bro, that type of familiarity and closeness), Robert Downey Jr., Michael Richardson (of Seinfeld fame. Played Kramer on Seinfeld show, a very ENFP type character).
Um, yeah, sometimes ENTPs and ENFPs are quite hard to tell apart.
I think Quentin Tarantino (Pulp Fiction writer and director) is an ENFP. To me, Moran shows a similar sensibility…and commentary.
Yes, “commentary” may be the right word and a part of the real difference between ENTP and ENFP.
O, you know, Craig Ferguson, the late night talkshow guy? He strikes me as ENFP.
There is a similar rambling commentary on people, places, and situations. ENFPs are often pseudo-intellectual, ironic, witty, jesting, playful, have commentary on all and everything (melting pot).
ENFPs are often funnier for their manner of saying something than what they are actually saying.
Carlin is a great example of an ENTP comic. Notice his focus on language (for instance). The seven dirty words. There is this brilliant Ti thing with him. Like, that is what he is commenting on often enough. For example: “That’s what they tell you – ‘get on the plane, get on the plane’. To which Carlin responds, “Fuck you, I’m getting in the plane”. A lot of Carlin’s (and Bill Hick’s) humor relies on the way we use language. It often comes down to specific words that we take for granted such as obscene words, phrases that we say all the time, but, when you think about it, are quite absurd and humorous. So, a lot of ENTP humor relies on Ti precision of defined words (also things like syntax, grammar, prepositions etc.). I think ENTPs also innately challenge the messages that marketers give you. Hicks was brilliant in his deconstruction of marketing. See his stand up show Relentless.
ENFPs are essentially brilliant marketers that often seem to be pretending that they aren’t of this ilk. However, the funniest ENFPs are the ones that are making fun of themselves and their often superficial proclivities. ENFPs essentially wanna be cool, hip, in-the-know, in the loop, but, not look like a cliche. They do not essentially criticize culture. They believe in it and are deeply invested in it (their identity relies on culture), but, they like to mock certain subsets of the culture. Whoever they perceive as uncool.
ENTPs don’t care that much about being cool.
Anyway, that is my thoughts at this moment.
Yes, there is a definite softness to Dylan Moran and I see the contrast with Carlin, who I also love so much. When you said Robert Downey, I paused though. I think you are correct, but he strikes me differently and can really irritate me. Maybe different enneagram or I just think Iron Man is kind of an ass. Moran can be mean, but there is a difference.
I’m going to have to look up some of your other references, not too familiar yet.
So I was thinking I was seeing Fe in Moran, but instead I’m thinking his politeness and deference and occasional ability to bite down hard are Fi. Funny I didn’t see that before cause it makes so much sense as I’m seeing it now. Essentially as I have to find things in myself, but I have both in near equal measure, making it hard to differentiate at times and I was attributing Fi to Fe. That is to say, the Fi polite is quite sincere but cooler, more reserved… mmm, okay. The Fe warmer, bright, but like the distant sun.
Thanks so much for sharing what you see!
You are seeing a lot of Fe in Moran. Much of the way I’m describing ENFPS here is directly due to Fe. Not Fi. So you were right the first time.
I can’t find where you wrote it before but if Fe is aux. for INFJ and Fi is the Id, then is Fe Moran’s Id? So I do see Fe, but I also am surely seeing Fi. And is that the same sort of tangle then as the other way round? If so, they are fecked too.
Yes, Fe in the id for ENFP. It gives them that base of extreme talkativeness and constant stream of hilariousness. Well, in some cases. A lot of stand up comedians have this Fe id. It’s great for a constant stream of ever-changing talk that is funny in undertone. It is wide-ranging in topic. It is all and everything. With Ne dominance, you got yourself a prime observational humorist.
ESFPs have this id too. And they talk and talk and talk.
I wouldn’t say they are fucked in the same manner as INFJs, though, ENFPs do have a conflict of authenticity vs. wanting to sell-out, make money, be seen with all the best people and so on.
This has me considering everyone’s compelling Id. Thanks again!
Don’t consider anything tiny yellow tree. That is why you are here. To just be. Let’s breathe next to each other.
An ENTP gal here . . . and a Gemini LOL. God help me.
I love your stuff here, highly entertaining, and highly insightful.
I now give god permission to help you. Bless you child.
Can you briefly describe how Te id works for ENTPs?
Te id gives ENTPs a natural understanding from a young age of rules and regulations of society. It also gives them an innate sense of organization and scheduling. For example, when at school at a young age they know what is appropriate and not appropriate. They know what is expected of them by authorities.
They may choose to challenge these rules and regulations but they have a firm grasp of what they are. If they choose to rebel, for example, they will do it by the book, so to speak. This is one of the reasons they make excellent lawyers. They have an innate respect and understanding of the necessity of the legal process and they know how to use the extant rules to get what they want. Or get what their client wants.
Essentially, ENTPs believe in the system and know how to maneuver effectively and instinctively within it.
They will not be a type who resents the system and silently rebels at it by some form of non-compliance for example.
But, they do love to test the system and reality to see what they can get away with. They want to know what the boundaries and limits are. They want to see how much they can push the rules and limits to see what the reaction will be. That’s due to their Te id in large part.
What do you think the potential dynamics would be in an ENTP-INFP love relationship?
Hmm I’m no Blake.. But I have witnessed two ENTP-INFP relationships.. I don’t think all of them might turn out to be the same.. Depends on the level of maturity of the ENTP and INFP in question.. But here’s my two bits..
The positives..
1. The ENTP needs unconditional love and validation (Yes.. they like being appreciated for their thoughts.. They don’t give a damn but they give a damn.. ) and the INFP needs to love and validate, find a place to anchor their souls at.. So it works..
2. They have wonderful conversations, especially if the INFP has a well developed auxiliary.. Either way the INFP tends to play the role of the listener.. Which is okay cause they enjoy it.. INFPs have a way of making people open up by asking a lot of questions.. ENTPs love that..
3. The INFP will turn a blind eye to the ENTP’s flaws and be infinitely accepting.. The ENTP will consider the INFP too nice to subject them to their standard cocky behaviour.. Because INFPs appear to be so harmless, ENTPs don’t mind letting their vulnerability show (oh yes they are vulnerable)..
4. They are both extremely committed and loyal.. An ENTP in love isn’t going to give a damn about another man/woman.. Because they love with logic and it doesn’t make sense to them to think of someone else (only if they are actually committed to the person, else their minds and hearts are roving around all over the place).. An INFP in love will give everything away..
The negatives..
1. It’s Fi.. ENTPs just don’t appreciate Fi.. And unfortunately for the INFP this leads to them feeling like they’re invisible to the ENTP or like they are unvalued for what lies at their core..
2. The INFP takes the ENTP way too seriously.. The promises, the wit, the charm.. They interpret it in an Fi sense.. ENTPs.. They are intellectually deep people.. But they don’t have a standardised emotional structure within them.. Everything is an experiment and everything is a reflection of what can be made of the moment rather than a projection of some deeply held belief.. But because ENTPs are oh so quick, INFP takes it too seriously.. The problem arises when the INFP expects a certain type of response based on their understanding of the ENTP and instead gets Ti (harsh to the INFP) in return.. It breaks their heart.. Yet they hold on for as long as possible..
3. ENTPs can find the INFP brand of selfishness (it exists) quite annoying.. They can’t or don’t want to understand why the INFP can’t change the way they feel about certain things.. Especially when it restricts their independence..
4. INFPs find it hard to understand ENTP tertiary Fe.. At times it can make them question their motives.. Especially if there’s no explanation provided..
Basically, the ENTP is kind of oblivious.. They like adhesive relationships.. Independently evolving entities, choosing to stick together and with the capability of pulling apart for a breather and then coming back together without causing much damage.. The INFP is too invested.. They like cohesive relationships.. Becoming one.. It can work if they choose to find middle ground..
Also, with ENTPs I’ve noticed that astrology and maturity tend to influence their temperament a lot.. INFPs tend to be more homogenous.. So success in such a relationship is a matter of chance and choice (I realise that’s almost like saying nothing) :p
Are you the ENTP or the INFP?
ENTPs and INFPs out there, please correct me if I’ve arrived at some wrong conclusions here.. My database is quite limited.. And my opinions are definitely biased :p
Love this post, i am an entp gemini. It really hard to find someone here in my place to discuss about ideas, i love to talk about ideas and theories but still haven’t found one.
YYYYEEAAAAAH! I’am an ENTP and a GEMINI.
Fun stuff. my life motto is : whatever forever.
Let’s argue some subjective bullshit!
Is there some kind of correlation between aspects in natal chart and ENTP types? For example that they got plenty of Uranus aspects? Uranus conjunct Venus and or Saturn for example? Or perhaps a Aquarian ascendant?
Simple rule: One’s astrological birth chart does not determine the innate Myers-Briggs temperament, however, it amends it according to the nature of the positions, aspects, and so on in the birth chart. So, yes, a strong Uranus in the birth chart, would boost up the Ne-Ti factor in whatever Myers-Briggs temperament it was occurring in.
The natal chart of my ENTP partner is a great example of this:
He has Uranus conjunct the Ascendant to boost his Ne to the max (both in Leo for extra dramatic effect….)
Venus and Mercury are both in Gemini conjunct the Mid-heaven to reinforce his trickster auxiliary Ti function.
When I first read this article I was taken back at how accurately it described his “ENTP’ness” (pun intended!). I guess when one’s innate MBTI temperament is supported by the astrological birth chart you’re more likely to see a pure expression of a type.
ah i see. so simplified, its possible to have majority of planets in water elements and still be a T.
I was trying to figure out how that works as it seems rather un-logical to me.
One should assume that heavy Scorpio influence would give you a huge F(of some sort)..
When you do consultings do you ever compare such? Or would that be a very odd request?
“They contort, wriggle, wax indignant, wax ecstatic and wax on down to the town of clowns. ” This brings to mind the image of John Oliver.
I have now met a second entp whose home is like walls made of towers of books and projects past current and future. Honestly, entp clutter is my favorite version of clutter. Maybe the only version. I don’t love clutter. The invitation actually referred to shoveling stuff out of the way so the dinner can happen. Lol. And Some of these towers were wobbly.
What are more reserved entp like?
I am coming around to thinking Obama is actually entp. A quieter type. A beleaguered type. If such exists. Am picturing an entp who can give immediate reply to keep flow going but doesn’t necessarily think in terms of having a direction. Who is perhaps fatigued. Who is weighed down by the J style the presidency requires. Who can be formal on the fly but is actually kind of not that at all.
What made me think about this was watching James Franco in various interviews. Just trying to understand that guy made me wonder about all the ways Ne dominance can look. Also I think a friend whose mannerisms are those of Obama who I first thought was istp then isfj is actually an NTP type.
Also I then remembered an entp friend I have who writes songs who is often kind of lost, kind of intellectually rambling and VISION is not the vibe she gives. Distant possibility of very social intp.
Am definitely considering NTP. On Christmas Day. I did eat dinner with more than one NTP last night:) So there is a reason.
The only thing though is then I don’t know why Obama would have identity issues. But perhaps it is philosophically so more than deeper. He gives belonging desire vibes.
I understand argument for isfj. But entp don’t have to have very obviously communicated vision. Especially in the guise of seriousness. Writing will possibly suit them better and still the prompting of their creative minds may still result in a kind of intellectual maze.
Enfp explains identity issues possibly. But Obama doesn’t have that renewable people “attraction inspiration” energy enfps tend to have.
I want the anti entp argument someone:)
Lol
The article was fun and i could relate
I’d write a novel as a comment but i’m really not in the mood for typing
So go thank god i can’t send you a voice message😂
I am the universe, figured that out a long time ago. (I’m you too.) You can see it in me, why can’t you see it in yourself?
Man. Reading this has opened up old memory spaces. Not bad not good, not my cup of tesseract.