First of all, good work to all the people that commented in the last article. It was very interesting to see how y’all arrived at your conclusions.
So, are you ready?
Here it comes.
The INTJ women is…
She is the only one that MUST be an Ni dominant type.
Foster was a bit of red herring. She is commonly typed as an INTJ on the internet.
Reasons why I can’t buy:
- While I do see introverted intuition in her (she does seem mighty thoughtful), I do not think it is at the dominant position. She is not guided by Ni. It is rather in that “eager beaver” position. She seems more like she is trying on Ni, which basically amounts to her appearing to be intellectually weighty and serious.
- Foster’s body language is rather languid and relaxed, ready. Confident. Projects a bit of swagger.
- She does not seem like a true freak. Many INTJs can be defined by some aura of creepiness and true remove. Foster comes off as relatively normal and well-adjusted. She is thoughtful to be sure and would definitely be the most intuitive of all the other women here besides Judy Davis.
- Foster is cold, but, INTJs are warm deep inside. I don’t sense that with Jody. She seems genuinely cool as a mainstay. She plays about with Ni to be sure.
- Foster has a “green” quality even when she is older. INTJs never have this quality. They always give the impression of depth, weight, heaviness, torture, vicissitudes, etc. Foster does have what could be termed “an impressive maturity” for her age. But, she has no true pathos.
- In what is arguably Foster’s most defining role, Clarice Starling in the movie Silence of The Lambs, she plays a character that seems most like how her true type is – an inquisitive detective that is entering into the true dark side of human nature. She has objectivity and a genuine interest in the twisted recesses of the mind (pathos), but, absolutely no familiarity with those vicissitudes herself. She is willing to look into those dark recesses and see what she can see for an objective – to catch a killer at large. In other words, Clarice Starling is an exceptionally dedicated officer of the law. But, she is always on the side of the law. She has no moral ambiguity. She knows clearly where she stands.
But Judy…
On the other hand, Judy Davis is quite obviously an Ni dominant type. She seems torn off from reality, in her own world. If you notice that Judy’s eye movement is often looking up into space. It is almost as if she could be having an interview (or monologue) with herself. This is a trait of introverted intuition and Judy seems to have it to such a degree that she could not turn it on and off if she wanted to. It’s just the way she is. She inhabits a world of introverted intuition.
Alternately, introverted intuition, can suddenly fix on the interviewer and is very intense. It has that “burning through” or “looking through” quality to it. Depending on the mien or comportment of the INTJ at any given moment, they will show one or the other or both. I think some INTJs when they are in a more defensive mode such that they truly do not want to talk to the interviewer/potential conversationalist will have a very burning and penetrating stare of disdain, condescension, and judgment.
Judy seems to be relatively friendly and a bit off-kilter in the first video as if she is just roaming through her mind to see what she can offer. But, she is “out there” in a way none of these other women is. INTJs can be like this, especially when they are in a bypassed auxiliary Te mode. Judy seems to be in Ni and Fi mode in her first video to a large extent.
In the second video she is more classically INTJ in that she has that imposing intellectual aura that no other type can pass off. She is dry, intellectual, her facial expression is fixed and serious. She takes the whole process rather seriously. There is an inwardness to her. She looks up and within with her eyes.
The Other Women
None of the other women seem cut off from their interlocutor, though some of them do seem to be more serious than others. Well, Julia Stiles is a bit in her own space, but, that’s not because she is an INTJ 🙂
So, what is the common type that all the other women share? What do they all have in common? I know that Jody Foster would be the most obvious standout as not sharing anything with these other women, but, I maintain that she does.
I’ve seen many of the commenters in the last article typing Jody as someone who has thinking in her type code and seeing most of the other women as being feeling types of some sort (having F in their type code).
Yes, some of them are a bit bubbly, but, that is not necessarily coming from a true feeling preference.
And remember, these women are all actresses which means that they are outside the norm as a sample of type. Any actress must use more extraverted feeling than a normal person and I would say in the case of great actresses, they will mostly prefer feeling over thinking. However, some of these women aren’t necessarily the greatest actresses around.
Many of these women are known for playing female fighters in movies or television roles.
Also, these women are women. All women are biologically hardwired to prefer feeling over thinking. Not to mention in societal conditioning.
So, take into account that many women will show more feeling in their behavior over their male counterparts of the same type.
Discuss.
ENTJ or ESTP seem the logical possibilities given what you’ve said here. Hmmm…
Or ISTP, I suppose.
now I think they’re ESTPs after all. It seems clear they’re extraverts! ISTPs aren’t smooth like these pretty ladies!
Damn, I honestly haven’t had this much fun in a little while 😀
Rest of the women seem to be ISTP following your reasoning. I may change my mind in a few seconds after posting this, but I wanna get it out there now :p
So Judy is the INTJ, Jody is the ISFP with strong Ni, knowing exactly where she stands morally (Fi-dom), and having an objective in Silence of the Lambs (Te). She also has a strong physical presence, meaning that she projects Se as an auxiliary function.
And the rest are possibly ESFPs? (Does this have something to do with ESFPs having Fe in the id?). The female fighter role might very well fit Se-dom women. Though it seems in the last part of your article that you want us to get at types that prefer thinking over feeling for the rest of the women (though that doesn’t make sense because none of the rest of the women are ENTJs).
So perhaps you’re trying to get us to type the other women as ESTPs, fitting the Se-dom role of the women fighters and simultaneously preferring Ti over Fe, though showing this Fe much more than is typical for this type and perhaps being more developed due to the innate hard-wiring of women and the way they are socialized.
Also, we can rule out ENTJ because you state that Jody is the most intuitive out of all the women barring Judy, and since Jody is an introvert with Ni that’s not an INTJ, she must have tertiary Ni, meaning that the rest of the women must have an intuitive function of equal or weaker strength than tertiary. So, since the rest of the women prefer thinking over feeling, they must be ISTPs or ESTPs. But since none of the women seem to have inferior Fe, I maintain my original wager that you type them as ESTPs.
Oh what a tease…. it seemed like you had hints in there….:)
Blake throws down a ‘y’all’.
Crowd. Goes. Wild.
Jodie Foster’s career arc maybe argues for auxiliary Ni (trying it out as a teenager, growing in command until she decides in her prime to be a director rather than an actor), which says ENTJ.
But, the idea that she is the intuitive standout suggests ISTP as more likely to be the shared type. I’ve seen Harrison Ford suggested as a model ISTP, and I could definitely add him to the class here without dissonance. I’ll be interested if ISTP is indeed the answer, because I don’t think I know very much at all about this type.
ISTP? That’d be my first choice. Next choice is ESTP followed by ESTJ.
You mentioned that Jodie is “trying on” Ni, which seems to imply Ni at the tertiary position. The fact they tend to play female fighters…I’m thinking Se aux. Fe at the fourth position makes them nice enough conversationalists to fool people until you really get to know them (a lack of real pathos). The Se auxiliary position combined with Fe fourth position could really fool people (unlike Ne aux and Fe 4th hehe)…but this is just speculative.
The Ti at the dominant position also brings forth a relative level of intelligence. This could make sense for Jodie or Julia Stiles…but maybe not for Gwyneth Paltrow (but I’m biased against her because of her lame hokey pokey diets – makes me angry!).
Maybe they could be STJs as well, but I’m not feeling it…especially as that would imply a lack of Ni in the first 4 positions…I think STJs can also be real softies inside, but you mention that Jodie is a rather cold person.
As for ESTP…well. Maybe, but I can’t really imagine anyone tapping into their fourth function with such enthusiasm at a young age (I’m talking about Jodie). I also think ESTPs can be rather gregarious ’cause of the Fe at the tertiary position, but I haven’t met enough in my life to be sure of it. Anyways, I don’t think any of these actresses give off that vibe.
So I say ISTP. If this is what ISTP looks like, then I think I might have determined my mother and sister’s type. They’re both so much like all these actresses.
Immature ESTJs have a strong Se ID and Ni ‘point of least resistance’ influencing them. Donald trump is a prime example of that, jodie foster seems like a mild version of it – the immaturity makes sense especially for the second video where she’s only 17.
first video, 1:40 she gets asked: would you say being an agent is a good career for a lady? And she starts talking about ‘changing the world in the context of the system’ (Te) and morality (Fi)
Ok I watched some more videos of her, and she’s definitely ESTP
I immediately considered ISFP when reading the hints that Blake gave also, as it fits the description quite well. BUT, if INTJs are warm hearted deep inside, then I think ISFPs would be as well given the dominant Fi. ISFP and ISTP are my two choices right now, but ISTP is my current favored choice. It could definitely be something else BTW, so don’t get caught up on those two only.
From what clues you’ve left behind in your post, as well as a second re-evaluation, I think the type best suited to ALL of them is ISTP.
I don’t however believe all of them fall under the same type. To me, they are all Sensors, varying between ISTP the most common, ESTP and some SJ’s. As you mentioned though, it is incredibly hard to tell where the Fe function stacks. Due to a stressful environment, as well as backgrounds in professional acting, it is only natural that these people will have had to adapt or strengthen their Fe/ Se functions.
For most of them, I could tell they learned Feeling as a tool.
In Foster’s case, the difference between her child interview and her adult interview is a growth of her Feeling function. However, what I see demonstrated is a natural use of Fe, through the injection of personal anecdotes and beliefs to satisfy the purposes of the interview. I previously stated that Jody Foster was an ISTJ, and you could adapt that to an ISTP.
Ti>Se>Ni>Fe
She seems to have had a balanced and healthy upbringing, and as a result I believe she has a highly rounded experience with all four of her functions.
Hi Blake, I believe the answer might be ISTP. But it surprises me. I can see how Hilary Swank would then appear warm, because ISTPs can be warm. I would totally get Julia’s benign deadpan face. But what about bubbly Heather Graham? Woosh. That is bubbly.
I don’t know. I surely don’t. They don’t seem to be the same type to me. Since I began to think of Judy Davis as a kind of embittered ISFP and Blake says she is an INTJ – maybe I will just go with that now. It will be interesting to see what you all say and what type Blake assigns to these actresses. If I could find one type that suited all of them, I would give it. Maybe it will come to me overnight. Doubtful. What a brain teaser. It’s been fun.
Well in some ways I’m relieved that you don’t think Foster is an INTJ, although that was my guess.
Well, ISTP or ESTP for the rest.. Definitely think they all have Se, can’t tell which position. Can see display of thought (Ti) strongly in some of them (Foster, Diaz, Paltrow a bit…still haven’t seen stiles). But the ones who don’t might well be logically thinking it not appropriate to do so… But, I’m veering toward ESTP. Foster says in one later interview that she finds it hard to unload her psyche onto paper… Now does the awareness of this difficulty make Ni tertiary or inferior?
But, I have a question. You say Foster is too well adjusted to be an INTJ.
Are you saying INTJs can never be well adjusted? And what do you mean by it anyway- well adjusted with respect to society’s expectations of the word, or within oneself?
Arg, i forget this doesnt allow editing of comments.
It is still kind of hard to think that all those women are the same type, though seems possible. I mean Claire Danes and Foster at the same age don’t seem similar, but I suppose it could just be the setting..
And about Judy Davis, hmmm I made similar observations to her presence/facial expression, but…
I don’t know, I guess I thought INTJs are supposed to have the stern vibe she has in the second video.. And did not associate the possibility of delicate expressions with them at all. That was an interesting thought….
Actually, ignore what i said.
You say Clarice Starling is like Foster (and thus same as the others), so I’d guess ISTJ
I can buy that Judy is INTJ and that Jodie is not, although the comment “Many INTJs can be defined by some aura of creepiness and true remove.” doesn’t resonate with me. Perhaps I have been mistyping.
I really struggle with your argument that the remaining actresses (including Jodie) are all the same type. Heather Graham and Jodie Foster the same type?? Where I’m at is:
– that by virtue of their profession actors are too adept at appearing however they perceive they need to (particularly in staged TV interviews) for us to reach useful conclusions. If we could see them in documentary clips (difficult) it might be different. Not sure.
or
– that an individual’s ability (learned or innate) to draw on any one of their functions (or combination of functions) wherever these sit in their stack is far greater than generally realised and significantly more important than their type.
or
– that MBTI is nowhere near as useful a tool as I/we generally believe.
or
– that I’m absolutely crap at typing! 🙂
What a fascinating debate.
You said; ““Many INTJs can be defined by some aura of creepiness and true remove.” doesn’t resonate with me. Perhaps I have been mistyping.”
It is probably true that there are some INTJs who can blend in a bit better, maybe due to parenting, early childhood influences, or an effort to be a bit more sociable later in life. I have to say that I have seen INTJs who give off that creepy/scary vibe – and I think it depends on the other to see it. Some people complain they are scary. Others don’t find them scary at all. Also, I think it’s true that INTJs can exude confidence when they have to get the job done, but I don’t think it comes out in their most relaxed state…At least I’m like that, and I’m an INFJ or INTJ, idk. Most people claim that they are really surprised how quickly I can switch between “states”: a very shy eye-contact-avoiding “off” state (95% of the time) versus a very confident state (5% of the time).
Another thing to note is that people are often mistyped and claim to be INTJs, when they’re really not (e.g. the internet forums – don’t get me started *impatient sigh*). They always go by the criteria that they are emotionless robots who don’t understand people. Frankly, I think that’s the wrong criteria to go by, and they’re just excusing themselves to continue acting like jerks/assholes. I think most INTJs are actually very nice people when you get to know them!
I think I have met a few “real” INTJs in my life. I have worked and will continue to work in academic science, so there is a higher chance of encountering INTJs in my field. One INTJ I’ve met gives off that “creepy aura,” you can feel a blackhole spinning around behind his eyes. I’ve felt, um, less than comfortable when he looks at me. When he’s serious, his voice is quiet but intense (scary!) But deep inside, he’s a really nice guy. And actually he can be a wild, fun guy when he wants to be, but when he’s getting into his research/science for the day…ummm…He’s in an obsessive, trance state. I think I met maybe three other other academics who also give off this vibe, but they were all very nice guys.
Karen, yes after this I’m really wondering about the MBTI now too!!! But this is so fun!
Blake, lemme just preface this by saying, I love you like a best friend I’ve met before….
I looked up Judy Davis interviews this morning, and I found this quote from a 2013(?) Guardian article:
‘ I mention that she has an executive producer credit on The Eye of the Storm. “Oh, Geoff and I have the same agent. He got executive producer so I did too. I thought: ‘Woo-hoo! Here I go!'” The line crackles with laughter. “Sadly, it didn’t mean much. The only thing that means anything is power and it didn’t give me that.” Does she want power? “I’d like to be able to hold my own in a room and say: ‘I hear what you’re saying. But I think it has to be this way.’ Wouldn’t that be wonderful? Oh, that would be wonderful! I’d be kind with it. I’m sure there are actors who have that power but I’m not one of them. I don’t even have it with my own children.” ‘
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/apr/25/judy-davis-never-wanted-celebrity-interview
I can say, as an INTJ, that I cannot resonate with anything this woman says, her perspective, her attitude, or how she chooses words to articulate. It is almost anti-NTJ. INTJs are “self-power” people. No one has to give them power—-they don’t even understand the concept of power given or taken away! Power is simply around us all the time (Ni). We grab some when we need it, we let others take some when they need it. It’s all about the big picture and finished product. There is no “power in the moment/project” anxiety for an NTJ (ENTJs as well).
What I really don’t get is Judy IS an actor with great power, she wields emotional demonstrativeness around on every set she works on (stories about her are legendary–fights with directors, other actors–she seems like quite the rabble rouser), and yet, she feels as though it would be “wonderful” to be able to say, “this has to be this way or that way,” as if she’s NEVER DONE IT. She then exacerbates the premise by saying she doesn’t even have that power with her own children. I’d bet, (if I were a betting woman) she is as demonstrative at home as she is at work. People don’t change significantly from work to home-life.
These are not the actions/musing of an INTJ. Rather, they are the actions of an ISFP, enneagram type 6 counterphobic personality. The juxtaposition between railing against authority and wielding independence while simultaneously thinking that you’ll never be removed out from under someone else’s thumb. INTJs are not prone to this. Ever. The concept is a non sequitur to them. A complete fail.
Rather, I think this “Ni dominance” that Judy exudes is her self awareness from the function stack of ISFP. If we think about it, Fi-Se-Ni-Te is quite an introverted, self-aware “intuitive” presentation. Because everything is mainlined through dominant Fi, it’s pretty difficult to not be self aware. They take everything personally, by definition. Add to that, the auxiliary function is Se…not really an action function, but an observation function. The stuff that surrounds them. Tertiary is Ni. OK, so there’s the Ni awareness. It’s actually third position, but since their auxiliary isn’t an action function (T or F) it’s easy to miss…and ISFPs start to look like really intuitive, self aware people. Because they are (to an extent larger than INTJs).
The Fi-Ni loop that ISFPs create looks almost other-worldly. They are “locked” onto themselves. It’s the World as it pertains to them. They have to go to their 4th (!) function to get to an extroverted action, Te. This is where the searching for words, eye shifting, looking up, etc. comes in. They’re in their 4th function before they can explain themselves. It’s not easy for them. And one starts to notice that by contrast, an INTJ is extremely adept at explaining themselves through auxiliary Te. It’s really the “first” function the outside world sees of the INTJ, making them seem almost ESTJ Sensor-ish competent and cool. They hide their dom Ni really well.
An INTJ is Ni-Fi, an ISFP is Fi-Ni. To the observer, you’ve got the same loop functions to dissect, although in reverse. It’s the order that’s the devil. Start to look at whether the behaviors as introverted or extroverted. ISFP=introverted feeling through really underdeveloped Te.
INTJ= introverted intuition through very highly developed Te. Two different planets.
Counterphobic tendencies are my new behavior obsession…they are so interesting!! But not conducive to INTJs. Jodie is an INTJ. Everything she says resonates Ni-Fi through Te. The rest are, if they’re not all ISFPs….maybe….ESTPs. They all look like those functions in that order, to me.
Hi schlopadoo
“I think most INTJs are actually very nice people when you get to know them!” I agree. I’m INFJ and have rarely met a true INTJ I disliked. Most of them are medics I’ve got to know through my work. They can definitely have an intimidating presence and refuse to suffer fools (I can relate to the latter!) but I wouldn’t describe them as ‘creepy’. I wonder if this is a word that translates poorly across the pond? To me it has undertones of slyness, untrustworthiness and even malice, as well as obsession; the stalker archetype.
I like your observation on the fake INTJs. I’ve come across a few ISTJs who self-type as INTJ and who pretty well are emotionless robots!
You got me thinking about a couple of ENTJs (who don’t mis-type) who boast that they DO understand others and, finding them wanting, do the only intelligent thing by treating them in a robotic manner. One describes most fellow humans as ‘oxygen thieves’. Really chilling. On the other hand, some of the most charismatic leaders I’ve known have been ENTJ. I guess with all types it’s the vices of their virtues…
Scary thing you say about ENTJs. I haven’t met many before!
I guess you’re right, “creepy” might not be the best word to describe INTJs. They can definitely be intimidating though. Maybe a better word is unsettling. I think there won’t be so many of these sorts of INTJs in medicine. I think medics tend to be able to make, for lack of better wording, better impressions on people? I would imagine INTJ medics could be intimidating but still give off a “normal” vibe. In science, you’ve definitely got your fair share of crazies…Some INTJs there are quite unsettling. I don’t know how to describe it. You can feel them obsess in their own world, so to speak.
I feel a relief that we have been given this hint:)
I saw a video with Gwyneth Paltrow promoting her book while eating with Seinfeld (strangely enough) and some other lady. She really reminded me of my sister in law (who is ISTP). So I buy that now:) I had actually forgotten how put together some very feminine ISTPs look. But actually my sis in law is girly girly physically, but she is still Ti dominant.
Julia Stiles also looks like an ISTP. Like so many have said, she looks “badass”:):)
People thought Hilary Swank could be INFJ. ISTP makes sense. What people see, Ti and Ni and warmth, are true of both types.
I find it so interesting that ISTP was mostly not in my list of types to check. I often forget that type. Really wonder why that is. Grounded, cordially warm, thinkers nonetheless, physically capable. Making a mental note to remember this type in future typing challenges.
This was a lot of fun. Very educational mbti wise.
Hi Lunar,
“I find it so interesting that ISTP was mostly not in my list of types to check. I often forget that type. Really wonder why that is. Grounded, cordially warm, thinkers nonetheless, physically capable. Making a mental note to remember this type in future typing challenges.”
Yeah, me too! I had spotted some of the correct functions (Ni/Se/Fe), but was misled by the apparent strength of Fe in many of the women, so had discounted ISTP as a possibility. Also Ti body language cues are harder for me to detect than some of the other functions.
I only have one ISTP friend, and she does have reasonably developed Fe – she is a great hostess and quite caring in her own way. But the Ti is strongly present once you get to know her well – she is smart, tough, capable and can be highly critical of others’ incompetence. Interestingly, she sometimes vents her criticisms out loud via her Fe inferior, which adds considerable emotional force to them. I get the feeling that she doesn’t appreciate just how cutting and sharp she can be at times.
“Foster is cold, but, INTJs are warm deep inside.”
I think I know what you mean. Someone had quoted that Jody once said she cannot not be cold. I remember thinking with dead certainty that an INTJ would never say this about themselves. I think INTJs believe they have a very “human” core that they can be really touchy about, sometimes touchy in even a very cutting way.
However, ISTPs aren’t really cold the way I see them. I have seen ISTPs display loyalty as a telltale trait of theirs. It’s a warm trait. Also, while they assess you with those eyes of theirs, while they contemplate you from “afar” with skepticism, etc, you can always pick up a good comrade vibe .
I don’t know TOO many ISTPs, but all the ones I do make GREAT family members, great at family reunions etc. Great with kids too.
Jodie Foster said in that same interview “I don’t FEEL cold” and the. Finished with the rest of the quote. She seemed aware that to others her outward behavior LOOKS like that. I can see an INTJ saying that and trying to convey that to friends and family, which is what she said she tries to explain to them. But, I get that none of that means she is an INTJ, but it was how I came to my earlier conclusion that she was indeed the INTJ. I stubbornly persisted with that even though I had a feeling that Blake had Judy Davis in mind.
Last night after I proposed that the rest of the women seem to be ISTP I went back and reread the article a few times seeing if any other clues jumped out at me. Nothing did in an obvious way but the most interesting clue to me lies in the following phrase that was given:
“She is not guided by Ni. It is rather in that “eager beaver” position.”
What is the “eager beaver” position? The most natural position I thought of right away was the very evident “tertiary temptation” function that is so often written about on the internet. It seemed to make the most sense to me given all the clues laid out carefully in the article, but then I remembered the inferior function being said to be a function of extremes, unstable, attractive, etc.. I personally don’t buy it that all of the actors listed are ESTP or have Ni as an inferior function, but I guess that’s what he is driving at. I definitely don’t think the inferior function would have had much of an impact on Jodie or even Claire Danes at such a young age.(both age 17 in those videos)
“In what is arguably Foster’s most defining role, Clarice Starling in the movie Silence of The Lambs, she plays a character that seems most like how her true type is – an inquisitive detective that is entering into the true dark side of human nature. She has objectivity and a genuine interest in the twisted recesses of the mind”
Is that an average ESTP description? I don’t think so, and certainly not at a young age.(for most ;), I always admit there could be outliers ) I would still propose ISTP at the most likely type.
Hi Nikki, what you wrote about Judy is so interesting. I definitely agree with you that her level of self-aware is uncomfortable. But I think it’s self in the sense of her own truth.
If you look in this interview, when the interviewer asks her if she studies people for reactions etc, I find that she really does look like an INTJ. This is around 1:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Q1_PZh9yI
This is what I see: the interviewer asks a pretty normal question, but Judy must be experiencing it as being labelled (a very Ni preoccupation) or as an inadequate formulation of what she knows she does. Her gaze on the interviewer is so intense, I think she gazes right THROUGH the interviewer to her inner universe and simply isn’t in total agreement with the interviewer. Te says, um, that’s not an EXACT version of the truth. Her laughter at that moment creates a real separation between her and the human element of the interviewer’s conversation. It’s about the ideas and getting to the correct bottom of the ideas, which may actually destroy the ideas. You can see Judy almost going nuts in a way. She is a really interesting INTJ. Plenty of INTJs that will look way more neutral than she does, with better articulation, and with more focus on palatable delivery.
At around 3:58 or 4 or so, she says “Look” in such a strong Te power-wielding way. Pure separation from the human element again, even if it is probably meant to be some kind of social gesture. She may not know she has power, but she has it. Perhaps she has some kind of frustration about her social skills when she says she can’t have an effect when she speaks in a room. INTJs are sometimes vulnerable and will feel rejected even when they probably don’t even need much affirmation from people (just a little to feel human). My father is an INTJ and he can do what I call the hurt puppy face in fleeting moments. There is social vulnerability. Sometimes he mutters jokes and noone understands and its very awkward and vulnerable. But he is a powerful man. To me there is no contradiction.
Couldn’t she be going nuts if she was was using too much of her non- dominant functions? Maybe trapped in a mind loop? Well, that is why I began entertaining ISFP for her. I thought that might be what is happening. I don’t know. I am struggling with believing this typing, but credit Blake and many others here being more studied about such things. It is interesting to discuss and explore and this has consumed me more than I should have permitted. 🙂
I think that the only actress which kind of resembles an INTJ is Heather Graham…She seems to be the only one from the Gamma Quadra. As for the other actresses, I think that they’re all Betas, and that they’re all ISTPs except for Judy Davis, who I think is an ENFJ.
But I’m not sure…
Oops, sorry Lunar. I did not see your videos before replying.
Lesson: I have a little lesson from this entire exercise.
When Ti is dominant like that with Se auxiliary (the Se lets you kind of talk in a very present economical way), it is as if it is even less visible than in an Infj:
When Infjs are thinking and trying to communicate clearly, you really can see them accessing Ti on their actual faces and can hear it in their language. Their speech often slows right down and sometimes they outright stutter (i think….)
But with these ISTPs, it’s a little different.
In the charged tv appearances, you see more Se kicking in strong and Fe. The Ti just works in the background somehow. Gives them a really “cool” look to have the Se and Fe. Way less stony than I would expect for a Ti dominant. In all these interviews, you have to realize how much they are turning cool “on”. It works quite well. I am impressed by their ability to deliver what is expected in these socially difficult setups.
Another lesson: these stars’ interests sometimes suggest an mbti function. For example, they all seem to have some business skills, I thought Te. But actually Ti is not so bad at the nuts and bolts of a venture (maybe even the fine-tuning of a “brand”) and Se would obviously help. You can’t just figure out functions that way….. all you can do is gather up “circumstantial evidence”.
I think perhaps the one function you might be able to pinpoint from interests is Se. I think if Se is low, or you are Si, you truly are less likely to be a good at extreme physical activity or interested in violence (kicking an already wounded dead bird out of disdain for weakness just don’t sound like Si sentiment…. one of the biggest clues someone had dropped that indicated that Jodie must be Se)…..
Life is so strange. I remember writing…. Jennifer and Gwyneth show some Martha Stewart-like interests.
And now this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ont8nq3RuiU&nohtml5=False
And this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfLDkc2uRIg
Definitely sniffed out the type of interest well:)
Interestingly enough, Gwyneth Paltrow and Martha Stewart had some words for each other starting with Martha Stewart criticizing Paltrow for stepping into her territory. I heard about that briefly but did not see how it played out.
Oops, sorry Lunar. I did not see the videos before replying.
I think they are all Sensing types and Extroverted. You hinting at Yodi trying for Ni, which at that age, if she tried to jump the functional stack, she would have. You also say they all would have strong Thinking. So maybe she (Jodi) would have Ni as inferior function and F would be extroverted. So, ESTP.
arclamp, I agree with you, based on Blake’s hint about Ni being in the “eager beaver” position, I also think ISTP is most likely.
I’m having a tough time seeing ISTP for Hilary and Jodie, though. They seem like Fi-doms to me. Jodie knows herself and her values and that seems to be what centers her and where she derives her responses. Same for Hilary. Everything she says comes straight from her values, and it comes quickly, as is characteristic of a Sensor-Feeler. I’m not seeing any Extraverted Feeling. Any kind of warm interaction she offers is contained and reserved. Even when she’s being animated and communicative and extraverted, she’s closed into herself. That = Fi-dominant. An ISTP with inferior Fe would still be more open.
Heather Graham and Cameron Diaz are both ENFPs, to me. Dominant Ne seems apparent to me. So much Ne-tangential rambling! Serious Ne-moment at 0:45 of “The Body Book” interview for Daiz: “The book of the science of it all, we both kind of went in and did our research for it, we got the doctors and researchers and we spoke to a ton of different researchers whom we really, you know, were actually experts in the fields that we were finding we needed to make sure that what we were talking about…cause we really wanted to make sure—” and then she continues on lol I’d say that’s Ne-Fi.
Gwyneth Paltrow seems like an INFP to me. Subjective but thoughtful and explorative. Not very clear at some points, leaving a lot of information to be filled in by the other person in conversation (like connecting her feeling like people resented her for winning an oscar at 26 with the passing of her father, that seemed like such an aux. Ne thing to me). She’s closed into herself and reserved.
I don’t know about Claire Danes. Jennifer Garner I suspect ISFP and Julia Stiles I suspect ENTJ.
But if the type is a T type, I’d sooner name them all ENTJs than ISTPs, because Fi-Se-Ni-Te are the functions I’m seeing. I’m not seeing Ti or Fe.
Yeah, Hilary Swank as an STP? Not sure about that lol
Heather Graham….. she turns on the Fe in such an enticing way. Very bubbly. I don’ know why that strikes me more as Tertiary Fe. I’ve seen ENTps do this who never stop talking. The Fe lures you in like mad. Keeps you listening to the chatter. The hahahahahaha she does all the time. Hmmm. Maybe Fe in 4th can do that too. In any case..
apparently Fe has something to do with bubbliness
On the I/E scale, Heather and Cameron confuse.
I’m sorry, Blake, I think you really fucked up in this one. I’m gonna try to make a more detailed and in-depth analysis of these actresses (and I’ve actually put some time to think about them all), but typing public personalities is one of the most dangerous things to do. First, because you’re always relying on TV interviews and stuff like that: although it mimics a real conversation, there are some features that might go unnoticed and sometimes they’re crucial for personality typing. Second, because there is no possibility for closure. If we disagree, there’s no way we can really verify our guesses, because the person is unreachable.
I have a hard time with the methods used by most people to determine personality type. Most of people here are saying things like “oh, but she does this and this, which means she’s using XX, and therefore the only types that have share these functions in these positions are XXXX and XXXX. That’s bullshit. Most of the time, it’s very hard to make a true connection between outward expression and inward cognitive processes, and most cognitive processes could be mistaken for one another. The best way is, and will always be, to see the types as wholes, and this involves a lot of “getting the vibe” of a specific type.
From what Blake has said, he’s typing Foster as an ISTP. Yeah, I can see that. She likes writing. She’s into sports. She’s into hierarchical structures (“…change the things from the inside”). She’s kind of harsh (“I miss all the bad things”). Very mature and concerned with work. Tomboyish. “Intelligence and strength”. Detective roles. Well adjusted. Yes, it’s all there. She could be an ISTP. In fact, she probably is and I was wrong to say she’s an INTJ.
But there’s no fucking way that all the other girls are ISTPs.
Heather Graham is ESFP. No other alternative. The guy was poking with her and stuff, and she was “yeah, whatever”, but you can see her getting hurt. You can see her sense of humour, but she’s not exactly hillarious. She’s beautiful, fit and smart. She’s into yoga, which is important: most of the female fitness vloggers are ESFPs. They can do chakrasanas and make it looks easy. Bright curious eyes. Alive.
Same with Claire Danes. Eletric and touchy facial expressions. She was dating a guy, then they broke up, and I’m sure the newspapers got it right: she was indeed searching for another boyfriend. ESFPs often are. I know many of them that can’t manage to be single from an early age.
Paltrow isn’t like that. Yes, she’s into wellness and healthy lifestyle, yoga, and all those things, but she’s not ESFP. She’s ISFJ, I think. One of the good girls, classy, friendly, empathic, motherly. Seems a bit vulnerable and genuine, but still very stable.
Cameron Diaz. Another ESFP, but a different kind than the other ones from this list. Books about body, science, aging for women and societal pressures. Family-oriented, hot and dandy.
Now, the problem with Judy Davies being typed as INTJ is that I don’t see enough insight. There used to be a female INTJ in my classroom, and she was freaking amazing. Whenever she talked, she was straight to the sweet spot, no bullshit. Ruthless insight and very strong logical reasoning. Amazing leadership and organizational skills. I don’t think INTJs are prone to this messsed up talking. Judy Davies talks heavily, but she isn’t talking deeply. To me, that seems tertiary Ni, not primary. And since I agree with you that she’s trapped into Ni-Fi loop, I’d say she’s an ISFP, which is a very bad call, but I don’t have more options.
Jennifer Garner is ENFP. Quick, wild, free and very funny. Just like Lilly Singh. Two very good examples of the hotness of the ENFP female.
Hillary Swank is a tough one. I’d go for INFJ. Just gut feeling.
Julia Stiles is ENTJ, I think, but I’ve never met a female ENTJ. I just don’t see too many options.
Hope it all makes sense. I think I got most of them right.
“The best way is, and will always be, to see the types as wholes, and this involves a lot of “getting the vibe” of a specific type. ”
That’s exactly the way I feel about typing as well. The overall essence I can gather from a person is what I will use to type them, not trying to go off of what appears to be one or two cognitive functions they are using. Absolutely. It’s very interesting that you consider most of them ESFPs. I was going to say that XSFP and XSTP are both viable but I’m trying to follow the guidelines that Blake put forth in this post. He said that INTJs are warn deep inside but following that reasoning ESFPs and ISFPs will also be warm inside because of the auxiliary Fi. That’s why I didn’t even bring up SFPs. I will say ISTP is the most likely following the guidelines of his post.
FWIW I see Hillary swank as an XSFJ possibly ESFP, and graham as an ESXP. Julia styles seems like an XSTP, possibly ISTP to me.
Lucas, I can see INFJ for Hillary too:) What about ISFJ? I have a friend who test ISTJ that everyone thinks is INFJ. I wonder if my friend is maybe ISFJ or ISTP. This is so confusing.
Lucas, thank you for seeing Judy’s Ni-Fi loop as the ISFP Fi-Ni version. And thank you for your description of the female INTJ in your class. It was as spot-on a description on an INTJ in a classroom/learning situation as I’ve ever heard anyone explain. I can see where you’re coming from with Jodie actually being something other than an INTJ…I like to go to the cognitive processes (SJ/SP/NT/NF) and narrow it down.
For instance, I see Judy as nothing but an SP Artisan. Obviously add Fi as her judging function and we’ve got ISFP. She does not have an extroverted judging function (TJ or FJ) and she is not an NT. This could be totally the wrong way to do it, but it get the processes narrowed down to at least four possibilities and then go from there.
I think Jodie’s far-flung-down-the-road outlook and her people-as-a-system perspective (in the FBI comment, specifically, but also as it pertains to her “global” tutored study program in high school) is definitely TJ. She doesn’t have an introverted judging function, than I can see, and she’s not an FJ or an NF. So, is she a SJ or a NT? A guardian or a rational? I see a lot of the rational perspective in what she relates to the interviewer. Plus, she’s sort of controlling the interview, even when she isn’t. And she’s quite different than someone like Paltrow, so I keep coming back to this…she can’t be anything but an INTJ.
It’s pretty evident Paltrow has a developed sense of family, tradition, work-ethic, “proper” behavior, politeness—she’s devoted to social/societal norms and traditions. The traditional male behavior, and the difference between “rowdy” male locker room behavior and how they behave “properly” around women. The difference between the way she was treated by men when she was dressed up and playing a male character, and when she was her womanly self. Accept the norm, establish oneself and family within the norm, nurture, maintain, repeat. Thorough, careful, detailed, proper, controlled. I’d say she’s an ISTJ. An ISFJ would be more concerned with service to and for others, and would get dragged around by others a bit, and I personally don’t see that with her. Plus, she married and had children with a behaviorally free and creative musician, typical of ISTJ rebelling against their own need for proper/traditional partners to play their role to society’s version of perfection. The straight A good girl dates the outlaw who skips class and flunks out, etc.
And, I totally think Hillary Swank is an INFJ as well. Definitely. And Danes and Graham being ESFPs. Thanks for your insights. I was starting to think I was going just a smidge crazy with all the women being the same type (except for one).
“Most of people here are saying things like “oh, but she does this and this, which means she’s using XX, and therefore the only types that have share these functions in these positions are XXXX and XXXX. That’s bullshit”
Hi Lucas, I think most people on here are just trying to explain to others the “vibes” they get from the actresses by using type theory. Otherwise you can’t really discuss it with other people. You’re just stating what you feel is right (even though ultimately that’s what it has to come down to in the end. 🙂 ). I agree with your approach to typing, though. I also think it’s less about what the actresses do or say and more about how. Otherwise, I think you can start falling into a stereotyping trap.
Also, you say you didn’t see enough insight or depth from Judy…how much depth can we really expect from these kinds of interviews? They weren’t really asking her any thought-provoking questions. Plus, INTJs aren’t robots, they’re capable of talking about “normal” things, too.
“She was dating a guy, then they broke up, and I’m sure the newspapers got it right: she was indeed searching for another boyfriend. ESFPs often are. I know many of them that can’t manage to be single from an early age.”
Hi Lucas, I agree that they are all such tough calls from just interviews. But isn’t the above an example of you doing what you are saying people shouldn’t do? Deriving functions from actions etc
Hey, lunar.
I wasn’t trying to backup my guess on Claire’s type by saying that she had broken up and probably was searching for another BF. That’s the thing with typing: there is no way to break down someone’s actions and trying to find a compatible type. That’s the wrong way to do it. The right way is to first get someone’s vibe and then trying to find actions or statements that can support your call.
But, in the end, I don’t know how to explain exactly why I typed people the way I did. I just got that impression from them. All the things I said weren’t explanations: the theoretical explanations are not important in typing. The important thing is getting it right. And that’s why most people get skeptical with MBTI (or Socionics): they are approaching it from the wrong side. When it comes to type real flesh and bones people, that’s when Jung proves that he got it all right.
One aspect of this challenge I found hard is that there were so many ladies at once. One could do one at a time and still spend one week per lady lol.
Hard and fascinating.
Why is this so fascinating…. I could neglect my actual job to do this:)
I also find it fascinating, I’m spending way too much time on this… it’s too much fun because there are people here that will actually discuss this stuff lol. Everywhere else, it’s not the most popular talking point. 🙂
“Lucas, I can see INFJ for Hillary too:) What about ISFJ? I have a friend who test ISTJ that everyone thinks is INFJ. I wonder if my friend is maybe ISFJ or ISTP. This is so confusing.”
Hi, lunar
I don’t see any scenario that an INFJ could be mistaken for ISTJ. Even if they’re both into hermit mode, they are totally different. Could you please describe your friend a little more?
As for ISFJs, yes, they can be quite similar to INFJs, specially because INFJs are the most private type. But they’re also painfully different. The “life struggle” for ISFJs will always be their Ne, which means they’ll often find themselves trapped into some accomodating situation and still having the urge to say “fuck it let’s rock”. The edgier manifestations of this type will be fascinated with ENTPs.
On the other hand, INFJs are fascinated with ESTPs. Action. Body consciousness. Five senses. Sex. Here and now. That’s their dilemma.
So, when you look at Swank’s career (and she’s a good actress), you’re actually looking into INFJs world. A transsexual (a male inside a woman’s body, and the opposite is true for the men). A boxer. Romantic comedy dealing with death in a poetic and inspirational way. I think that points towards INFJ, not ISFJ.
“I think Jodie’s far-flung-down-the-road outlook and her people-as-a-system perspective (in the FBI comment, specifically, but also as it pertains to her “global” tutored study program in high school) is definitely TJ. She doesn’t have an introverted judging function, than I can see, and she’s not an FJ or an NF. So, is she a SJ or a NT?”
Hey, Niki.
For me, her “people-as-a-system” perspective is absolutely an ISTP trait. ISTPs are pretty much obsessed with structures of the status quo, and they’re very concerned with hierarchy and function management (think of an efficient car that has all the pieces working smoothly and perfectly). Blake is right, she does have the swag. And the heavy eyes. Yes, ISTP.
And Paltrow is too hippy to be an ISTJ, I think. She’s also empathic and very smooth. Not ISTJ. ISTJs are kind of harsh.
“Also, you say you didn’t see enough insight or depth from Judy…how much depth can we really expect from these kinds of interviews? They weren’t really asking her any thought-provoking questions. Plus, INTJs aren’t robots, they’re capable of talking about “normal” things, too.”
You’re right, Jordan, they’re not robots. But there’s a flavor of certainty in the INTJ speech that I can’t see in Judy’s presentation. They’re damn accurate, and they know it. I’ve never seen an INTJ rambling about things like she’s doing there. She’s going nowhere, and she doesn’t even seem to realize that. It’s painful.
I’ve actually seen Ni-dominant types completely dominating interviews by transforming them into monologues. They can go on, and on, and on, but they’ll always be trying to grasp something bigger, something that wasn’t exactly contained in the original question. It’ll seem hazy and messed up, but if you stop to think about it, you’ll realize that they were trying to take some giant shit there. I don’t see this in Judy Davies at all. What I see is ISFP natural lack of ability with the spoken word. And that’s some heavy fuckup. But certainly not INTJ.
“I’ve never seen an INTJ rambling about things like she’s doing there. She’s going nowhere, and she doesn’t even seem to realize that. It’s painful.”
I have an INTJ female friend who has strong Fi. She is way more F than other INTJs I know. If you ask her certain types of questions, she struggles just like Judy. She doesn’t know the answer and she doesn’t want to bullshit. Very complicated answers with those eye rolls and grimacing. Same thing. An INTJ absolutely can look like this.
I don’t know if it’s really an Ni Fi “loop” in action. I have no clear understanding of what these loops are supposed to be.
Lucas, dude, you’re nailing it with INTJs to the point that you almost have me convinced that Jodie is an SP. Almost. “…there’s a flavor of certainty in the INTJ speech that I can’t see in Judy’s presentation. They’re damn accurate, and they know it. I’ve never seen an INTJ rambling about things like she’s doing there. She’s going nowhere, and she doesn’t even seem to realize that. It’s painful.”
So on point. Ridiculously perceptive. Although, Lunar, I get what you’re saying about INTJs struggling with certain questions, feeling a little like, put on the spot. I can say that this is only when they know exactly what they are about to say, but they just really, really, don’t want to say it, either because they’re being careful with someone’s feelings or protecting their privacy from someone they don’t feel is authorized to ask them this or that—-get this deep. INTJs are really only deep with like, one person, and that is a well-earned rank.
But in an interview situation, or casual conversation, or in a classroom, debate, etc., there is never a moment when the sublime articulation of thoughts doesn’t come. And it happens in real time. ISFPs think for DAYS about what they’re going to say to someone. They’re so concerned about their power being taken away from them, so concerned they’ll get emotionally flustered and just start jibbering on in a yes, painful, way. They KNOW they do this, yet can’t stop themselves (Fi = 1st place, Te = 4th place). They literally can’t listen to the other person for all their anxiety over what they’re going to say next, or the fact (in their mind) that they’re not being heard. And their conversations thus take on a very rambling, wtf are we talking about? quality to them. And no, they don’t realize that at all. They’re 1,000,000 miles away from the point and they don’t know where they are to get back home (cue: hysteria) And yes, I see this in both of Judy’s interviews.
On the contrary, INTJs have no idea what they will or won’t say, they simply respond. In real time. No thinking, just action through Te. Ni through Te. Simple. Cutting. No time for bullshit. It’s what I imagine is the INTJ version of the INFJ flow Ni through Fe. If you’ve managed to render an INTJ uncomfortably speechless, it’s probably because the ain’t talking about whatever you’re talking about anymore, for whatever reason. But trust me, they know the answer.
You guys are killing me! 😀
“On the contrary, INTJs have no idea what they will or won’t say, they simply respond. In real time. No thinking, just action through Te. Ni through Te. Simple. Cutting. No time for bullshit.”
This sounds like an ISTJ. They are simple, and cutting, and less thoughtful. They don’t spend too much time over-analyzing. They get straight to the point and leave it there. An INTJ,on the the other hand, is more thoughtful!
I agree with you that INTJs don’t spend time thinking about what they are going to say, I really do. They don’t need to, they know they don’t need to, they are capable of coming up with intelligent and well-thought out responses on the spot. But they will be more thoughtful in doing so. They are more cerebral/intellectual than ISTJs and they are also more cerebral than INFJs, necessarily, because they are a Thinking type. I believe because of this, INFJs will seem more direct than INTJs with their responses, and probably more accessible and easily understood by others due to Fe. So I don’t agree with the INTJ/INFJ comparison in that sense at least.
“They’re 1,000,000 miles away from the point and they don’t know where they are to get back home (cue: hysteria) And yes, I see this in both of Judy’s interviews.”
Judy is not insecure and unsure of whether she will come up with an answer, she is being intelligent and giving smart and witty responses to a pretty bland question. (I’m referencing the first video). I’m a big fan of INTJs, I know one intimately and I will forever defend their being human and not programmed robots. That’s ISTJ. 🙂 Just kidding, I seriously love ISTJs, too.
In the first video, I see how you guys can see it as Judy struggling to come up with a response when the interviewer asks her a question that if she straight-out answered she’d be giving away the movie. Then when he asks her to name some of the other actors in the movie, she hesitates a lot here because, as she says, she’s not sure that he would even know any of them.
She’s being delicate, but honest, with how she’s talking about the directors she’s worked with because she’s a professional and she can’t just be careless with how she talks about them, so that also may be slowing down her responses. Anything else that is “slowing her down” is her being thoughtful and reflecting on her experiences in order to give a true answer to the interviewer. She could have been less thoughtful and more direct with her responses, just “getting straight to the point” but that is not very characteristic of INTJs who analyze everything into the ground.
And anyway, INTJs are not perfect and they’re not all exactly the same. Neither are ISFPs all as you describe, I think they can be very well-spoken. Like Jodie. Lol. Okay, maybe she’s an ISTP. 🙂
“I’ve actually seen Ni-dominant types completely dominating interviews by transforming them into monologues. They can go on, and on, and on, but they’ll always be trying to grasp something bigger, something that wasn’t exactly contained in the original question.”
Totally agree, Lucas, but I think Judy did just what you’re describing in the first video. The interviewer asks a question about directors tending to be overly-controlling and she transforms the discussion into a theory on what makes for a good actor-director relationship: she concludes that it’s important that the actor feel “creatively free.” She was interrupted a few times in that first video, but in the second video, she’s doing the monologue thing that you describe.
Jordan, INTJs are thoughtful and direct on the spot. It’s so simple. They have a feel for seemingly everything, and how they feel they should respond, where they feel the conversation should go, the point that will be made. Because: Dominant Ni. So it is simple, and cutting—but not in a vanilla ISTJ way (not an NT, no Dom Ni). If you want to get a feel for the difference, read about guardians vs. rations. Can they both hold a conversation? Yes. Are they completely different? Yes. You would never mistake an ISTJ with an INTJ in any conversation deeper than the most surface scratching small talk. And even then, the ISTJ will keep small talking for more than 9 seconds. The INTJ will not.
And since Judy is neither a STJ or an NTJ, these differences aren’t really applicable to her communication style anyway. She is on a different planet than an INTJ (and ISTJ, for that matter).
This does beg the question though…why is there a problem with her being an ISFP? What’s wrong with ISFPs that Judy shall not be labeled as such? 🙂
I think I get what you’re saying, Niki, how Ni allows them to readily respond. I’m not even an Ni-user haha. I could just not understand what Ni looks like. I was just thinking even if she wasn’t an INTJ, she must be some kind of iNtuitive because of the way she spoke. I guess that’s not a strong argument though. I thought Sensors would be more down-to-earth.
Sorry about the ISTJ thing, that was kind of random haha. I wasn’t clear. I was just trying to illustrate that iNtuitives are more indirect in their responses than Sensors who I thought were more direct. That’s the main reason why I couldn’t see ISFP for Judy: didn’t see her as a Sensor, too indirect (conceptual) way of speaking. But, now I’m torn. Maybe all I’m seeing is Fi, Ni, Te, and Se….
Jordan, I completely understand how you (and a lot of people) think ISFPs are Dom Ni users. They can come across as so perceptive, so aware, so self-oriented….sort of this…I-am-my-own-island persona (soooo “self-actualized”) that they wear like a coat of armor. But that’s exactly what it is…armor. It’s not the rock-of-ages conclusiveness and just knowing things dominant Ni in an INTJ.
Rather, it’s the “I know exactly how everyone and everything is affecting me second-by-second (dom Fi, auxiliary Se) and I think I know where all this maybe could be going (tertiary Ni) so I’m going to attempt to explain my fears and concerns (often perceived by no one in the room other than themselves) through 4th position Te (a fiasco), and when that doesn’t work, I’m gonna keep getting introspective within the confines of my thoughts (tertiary “relief” position Ni) and search for some answer for the way that I feel, and how those feelings are constantly changing (dom Fi/auxiliary Se).”
Which is how they start debating, and contradicting, their own premise(s) throughout a conversation. But the “I know exactly how everything/everyone one is affecting me” can come across to the observer as dom Ni. ISFPs are truly aware. They are just truly aware of their little piece in the puzzle, not the greater puzzle itself. They have a tendency to miss the forest for the trees, in all their awareness, because it’s pointed inward, not outward, like in an INTJ.
Since it appears that INTJs lead with Te, and that *looks* a little cold, it’s often confused with the chilly self-centered-ness of the very inwardly introspective (Fi-Ni) eventual use of Te of the ISFP. At least, that’s my take on it. The ironic thing is, the ISFP, for all their blustering convictions, couldn’t be farther from the INTJ, existentially. INTJs look at ISFPs (once they’ve become adept at their tells) as non sequitur. Try as they may, the INTJ will probably never understand where the ISFP is coming from; they just know, it ain’t from the same place, obviously.
“I’ve never seen an INTJ rambling about things like she’s doing there.” Hmm. You are almost convincing me.
I have a good friend who tested INTJ and who really seems INTJ who did this one time with me, over a dinner. She couldn’t get to the point about a question and was really really trying and I did think woah….. complicated personality. And she seemed kinda going nuts. Tortured. Lol.
I think I triggered it by asking too many questions too fast. It could be what’s going on here with Judy. Too pressed by questions and she feels like she can’t answer them properly.
” ISFPs think for DAYS about what they’re going to say to someone. They’re so concerned about their power being taken away from them, so concerned they’ll get emotionally flustered and just start jibbering on in a yes, painful, way.”
Oh my god that sounds so miserable.
Oh my god I think someone I know might be ISFP. He sometimes gets no answer out. Just getting words out is slower for him. I actually thought he was INTJ though because he does seem to “see” a lot and can sound like one at times in terms of insight. But he isn’t very intimidating/formidable in presence. And is actually pretty nonverbal and always doing things with his hands as in all the time. Hmmm. Interesting.
But I think Judy looks much more intimidating than this ISFP. I am really wondering can an ISFP look as penetratingly as she does?
Yes, they can have a really intriguing presence. ISFPs are sometimes heavy, mysterious, deep, complex and it’s easy to think they’re Ni-dominant from a first analysis, just like some ISTPs. But once you get the type, it’s very easy to spot it. I’ve been surrounded by ISFPs all my life, specially female ones. I still got the scars to prove it.
There was this female ISFP (Scorpio Sun, Libra Ascendant) who was just like that. She wasn’t dumb at all. She was sexy as a charming passionate hell, sensual, mysterious, dark, flirty, funny, street smart. Very feminine in all its wilderness. She could lead the way, if she wanted. She didn’t seem vulnerable at all. I was puzzled by her personality for months. One day, I realized the vulnerability, the preference for non-verbal communication (damn, it was deep), the simplesness, and yet inexplicable complexity of her nature. Fi-Ni loop is just like that: it can’t be put into words. But when you sense it, wow, those are deep waters. I can see that in Judy.
Lunar, it probably is painful for them. What you’ll find with ISFPs (I’m inundated with them too, Lucas) is that in their frustration with being in a conversational world (or, at least a world where adults expect other adults to be able to explain themselves just a smidge) the ISFP will start to get defensive and bitter. FAST. It’s like, they want to steer the conversation back to non verbal rhetoric (sex, giggling and not saying anything while looking for the nearest exit, locking themselves in a bedroom/bathroom/closet/car, etc.) and if they can’t utilize any of these self preservation ummmm “tools” they start to get real shifty. Like a child being forced to sit at the table to do their homework. Their actions, their explanations, their insights come out all very childlike. They are very immature in the verbalization of what they’ve determined in their heads through Fi. No answers. They say this or that, and before you know it they’ve directly contested what they just said 10 minutes ago. They tend to end up arguing with the themselves against the premis. And their opinions about themselves against the premis change, sometimes before they’re done talking (Judy). If you’re in a conversation going nowhere, that’s filled with subjectivity and judgements based on personal needs (and literally nothing else) you’re probably talking to an ISFP. Grab a cocktail. Repeat. And if they’re pressed further, or asked to further explain or rationalize their position….well, Lucas still has the scars to prove it. They do not play with a deep bench, communicatively. And no, Judy is not playing with a deep bench in these interviews. I would love for someone to find a video of an actual INTJ woman in an interview situation. The difference would be clear.
@Niki
https://youtu.be/7ukJiBZ8_4k
The best example of an INTJ woman in an interview situation that I could think of..
Oh the intensity with which she says ‘You love only those who deserve it’ *chills*
Piggie, I’d say Ayn isn’t as INTJ either. Again, the focus on self, the alarming preoccupation with the power one person has over another, is not really an INTJ concern. INTJs are concerned with people working together. Somehow, it will get done. Because they understand that sometimes something has to be said, honestly, and hurt feelings may ensue to get to a positive end result, they get a chilly reputation. But they would never say “don’t love someone unless they deserve it”. INTJs don’t fancy themselves the judge and jury of anything, and don’t appreciate people needlessly putting judgments on them either. They are free thinkers. Whatever works, works.
I honestly think Ayn is another quite Counterphobic example…only with selfishness does one EARN love. Yeah, no. Not really a dominant Ni attitude. Pretty pedestrian, weak argument for an INFJ/INTJ, when there are so many more intelligent and productive theories to unify something larger than oneself. For all Ayn’s power rhetoric, she actually seems quite broken. And no one could cue into selfishness and love being related unless they had strong Fi. Two very turbulent emotions—rejection and love—-that would only be seen as going together if one was too self absorbed in their feelings to not test their erroneous theory against the outside world. Yes, Dom Fi will make its own reality *scratch head, order cocktail* and the relation of selfishness to love, of withholding in order to get, is pretty much a Counterphobic attitude.
Just for kicks (and because this video was in the youtube feed several videos below the Ayn clips) here’s definite INTJ Christopher Hitchens eviscerating the ideology of Ayn. Love.
http://youtu.be/4wYR6e9Z6es
Well, I agree with you that Ayn’s ideology is ridiculous and impractical. I don’t know if she’s INTJ, but I don’t rule a type out based on how ridiculous their ideologies are. Nevermind that INTJs are supposed to be a rational type, they are not foolproof in their theories. People of all types have believed ridiculous things in human history. Also, if Friedrich Nietzsche is an INTJ, he has done something similar in nature to Ayn Rand’s theories, I think. Blake mentions it in his article “INTJ Id = Ti: Part 1”: In the article Blake says that Nietzsche had these theories that love, and pity out of love, was the greatest threat to man’s will and that you should resist any temptation that they offer which will allow you to lose control of yourself and your will, and that Nietzsche was “attempting to live [these theories] out in the external world as much as an introverted intuitive like himself could muster” (Blake’s words). Rand seems to have gone down a similar path.
Christopher Hitchens isn’t an INTJ, to me. I think he’s an Extravert. And I’d name him an ENTP. If he is a judger, I’d maybe consider ENTJ, but INTJ I am not seeing.. Dom. Ne allows him to immediately see the DNA of the argument at hand, all sides of it, and argue his own point and he supports it with flawless logic via Aux. Ti. His aux. Fe is also apparent to me, his humor is much more palatable to the general audience than an INTJs (and he enjoys it).
However, I can see how Hitchens can be seen as an ENTJ also. Extraverted Thinking allows him to immediately know what point he wants to make, how to deliver it, and deliver it well and forcefully, with a good dose of Aux. Ni wisdom to support it. Now that I think of it, all of your arguments in favor of Judy not being an INTJ, and this little summary you gave about your understanding of INTJs in that last comment, tend to speak more to ENTJs than INTJs. ENTJs are excellent at working, negotiating, compromising with people. They completely ignore any personal hangups (Fi) and seek only to accomplish whatever task is at hand. As you put it, “whatever works, works.”
I think INTJs are a tad more selfish. They are also more of a lone-wolf type. And I think they can have a bit of a control problem when it comes to working with others. It is not their specialty or even in their interests really, to lead and work with others like it is of an ENTJs. And It’s not so much an INTJs Fi that this selfishness comes from, it’s more due to to Dominant Ni, this vision that guides them and which they can’t ignore or compromise. On the other hand, Dominant Te in ENTJs makes them incredibly practical and efficient in their dealings with people in order to accomplish this.
I think it’s possible that you may have ENTJs and INTJs a bit confused: in which case, If we were arguing ENTJ vs ISFP for Judy, I’d totally agree with your arguments and I’d have to pick ISFP over ENTJ for her.
@Niki
Well after reading this i guess I could be wrong about Ayn Rand..
I see what you mean by :
“Pretty pedestrian, weak argument for an INFJ/INTJ, when there are so many more intelligent and productive theories to unify something larger than oneself.”
My father is an INTJ.. And I have seen him talk about such theories all his life.. It’s always about collective growth.. Collective efficiency.. Collective productivity.. Understanding scientific physical systems and human social systems as a whole.. And yet, knowing that there isn’t much that can be done in today’s world to bring about changes that would benefit society as a whole, he’s equally happy just knowing that such ideas might have been of value in an ideal world and then he’ll just continue doing what practical thing it takes to keep things going smoothly (as long as there’s a “positive end result”).. Never been much of cribber.. They don’t really need others to validate their ideas or understand them, as long as they leave them alone to contemplate the mysteries of the universe..
And yet, they do not like it when their ideas or emotions are misunderstood as being cold..
And hence, I do think what appeared to you like dom Fi in Rand was just her getting defensive when she felt like her tertiary Fi was being questioned.. I’ve noticed INTJs to be quite uncomfortable about their Fi.. I think what Rand is trying to do is explain why her idea isn’t as cold as it appears to be.. She does not really mean that we all ought to be selfish in love.. She thinks that everyone ought to take responsibility for their own lives and be independent and work for what they want, irrespective of what others think of them and also to not allow someone else to dictate what should or shouldn’t be deemed lovable.. She doesn’t define worthiness.. The definition of worth, to her, is subjective.. She wants the power to define worthiness to be in one’s own hands.. I don’t think that’s self absorption per say.. Just her explanation of her ideas.. And her ideas definitely seem Ni over Fi to me.. With a Te application/expression rather than an Fe.. An INFJ would never use the same words, but if you really pay attention they will be saying the same thing.. Fe and Te just serve the purpose of Ni after all.. The expression could be sugar coated or hard hitting but it’s still slave to the most self absorbed of all functions – Ni..
I do think she aspires to Fi though (don’t all INTJs secretly, it being the tertiary?)..
Anyway.. This is all conjecture.. I just like arguing both sides..I can’t make up my mind.. But she’s too commanding a presence to be an Fi dom.. And Fi dom arguments are terribly supported.. They can never quite make their case for anything convincingly, other than they ‘feel’.. Whereas Rand, although her ideas are repulsive and way too out there (in my opinion) still manages to make a good argument (independent of whether it’s acceptable or not).. What other type would you suggest for her?
And I’d have to agree with Jordan.. Hitchens doesn’t behave like an INTJ in my opinion.. The banter is too much for an INTJ to be interested in.. They’d get to the point and be a bit more formal in their communication.. He’s also very comfortable and goofily irreverent.. Is Te-Fi capable of having the same effect as Ti-Fe?
Jordan, yes of course an INTJ is capable, as a human, for coming up and out with a doozie or two. But not to the extent of really living it. They might float a theory out there that they feel through Ni/Fi is a little too much for some people and then literally say, “Too much? Should I back up?” They have strength of convictions second-to-none, but they check those against reality.
Ayn is like, really living this assumption she’s made. She’s not wondering if she’s gone too far and left others in the dust. She’s not very…aware…of the places that Mike Wallace’s concerns are coming from (assuming Wallace is speaking for a section of the population at large that also shares concerns over the implications of her manifesto). She’s not intent on discussing it and letting Wallace poke at it, tear it down to build it back. And here we have this sort of slump in the chair, eyes doing everything but holding Wallace’s gaze, thoughts seemingly well-put-together but obviously rehearsed. And not in a way that’s like, she’s written books about this ideology so of course it looks rehearsed. Nope. In a way that’s like, she’s just sort of repeating herself. She’s refusing to go down a rabbit hole with Wallace to really test the validity of her convictions. She feels they are her convictions, she’s entitled to them, she’s entitled to write about them. Case closed.
There’s a lack of confidence in her. Compare that to Hitchens (whether he’s and INTJ or ENTJ he’s an NTJ and it works either way for this), who literally, on stage, in front of a crowd, off the cuff, while a glass of either wine or bourbon (bourbon) sits in front of him, simply nullifies the entire thing. Simply. And it’s not like he cares, apparently, if people agree with him or not. He was asked, and he answered, while adding witty anecdotes and personal stories and illustrations into his explanation, in about 2 minutes.
I definitely don’t see Hitchens as an ENTJ. They are so A-type choleric little Napoleons. Action. Response. Go. Do. Busy. Scheduled. Task-hounds. NOW!!
And not that there’s anything wrong with that. I actually quite like them. They do tremendous amounts work and finish things with the type of energy that an INTJ would never feign to muster. But they’re more concerned about *done* than anything. Te before Ni, steamrolling across Europe. And just like Napoleon, they have a hard time adjusting. They have a tendency to keep doing (Te) and ignoring signs from Ni or even Se. And I don’t think an ENTJ, with Fi in 4th position, is too concerned about things such as selfishness, love, and the greater affect on humanity. At least, not until way, way after the fact. Years after the fact. They are conquerors. Doers. Get outta the way! They worry about consequences later.
Contrarily, an INTJ is much more concerned with the long haul—the consequences of things. They are not patient people, but they’re going to see where something is going and let some stuff ride if it’s part of the process that they see unfolding. Ni-Te. But, people interacting with the INTJ will often only see Te. They very much come across as dominant Te users. Their Ni vision is not something they just sling around, because only like, another INTJ or INFJ would understand anyway. But they are calmer. They like their solitude. They interact, but they’re sort of always on their own island. They have no interest in conquering the island. It’s their damn island, right? So you see this professional critic aspect of them. They are very articulate, especially about where things need improvements. But as Piggie said of her father, “knowing that there isn’t much that can be done in today’s world to bring about changes that would benefit society as a whole, he’s equally happy just knowing that such ideas might have been of value in an ideal world and then he’ll just continue doing what practical thing it takes to keep things going smoothly (as long as there’s a “positive end result”).. ” 🙂
And for that reason, I definitely don’t think he’s an ENTP. ENTPs will actually just argue (much like an INTP) whatever they strongly believe, at any given moment. They will actually forget for a second and start arguing something that they don’t believe, or could care less about. They just love to play it that way. Go to all the dark corners and not stop until they’re satisfied and everyone else is exhausted. Hitchen’s makes several arguments, he’s an extremely opinionated guy, but he’s very refined and factual with his arguments. He has the strength of Ni-Fi convictions.
The banter of Hitchens probably comes from him putting himself in situations where banter is necessarily effective. His overall demeanor is far more wtf-ever and less aggressive than an ENTJ. He’s extraordinarily confident in his opinions and assimilations, and is bitingly accurate with both his contempt of selfish human behavior, and also his fondness of pithy, witty, smart human behavior as seen in his friend, which he relates to to the crowd in an effort to let the group engage with him, on a personal level. Which probably is tertiary Fi at work. He’s going to make sure that his somewhat obnoxious use of *who am I to judge how people chose to fuck?* at a dinner party and cutting opinion(s) doesn’t offend anyone, by making it completely relatable.
Ni-Te-Fi.
I have no idea what personality type Ayn might be. I would say, a heavy Fi user, and probably a sensor. Just like zero situational awareness (past herself), in my opinion. She’s trying to get everyone to validate her opinions. She’s not so much concerned with anyone else’s.
And, I’ve never read Nietzsche’s work, although I have read Blake’s articles that make reference to him. I can’t really say, without doing more research, how I feel about him though. The whole “love is a threat to man’s will” argument is pretty pathetic. Who gets stronger with no love? Or weaker by the mere threat of love? And how can someone threaten one’s will? That’s sounding very Fi to me (again, I know). A complete lack of, what a therapist would call, an “inner locust of control.” Witholding love, eschewing love, in order to gain strength. Bizarre. INTJs have very strong locusts of control. * Maybe* the strongest of all the types, although, everyone can get bruised and battered around. But, I hear he was a pretty bizarre cat, so, again, I’d have to read up on him more.
Thanks for the response, Niki, I would keep discussing but I’m not sure what else there is to say, I think we’ve both done justice here lol.
Jordan, totally! It’s like such an great mental exercise to go through all this. Personally, it doesn’t really matter to me what type any of these people are. It’s not like we have to live with them lol 🙂
But, it’s pretty incredible to sit down and write through all your thoughts about the observations we make about human behavior, the different nuances we pick up on, respectively, and how we interpret them into one type or another. Really shows the differences in human perception, and that perception is sort of everything to each person, in a way.
And Piggie, I completely see where you’re coming from about Ayn defending what she believes and maybe that coming from a tertiary position Fi, that being aspirational in an INTJ. Her ideas really might simply be very individualistic, and trying to defend her position as not being as selfish as people have interpreted it. Again, it’s so fun to hear different people’s perspectives of the exact same videos!! 🙂
“Really shows the differences in human perception, and that perception is sort of everything to each person, in a way.”
Yeah, it’s amazing… thank goodness for different perspectives, it makes things a lot more interesting (:
Lucas,
would Jay Z be an example of what you describe:
“Yes, they can have a really intriguing presence. ISFPs are sometimes heavy, mysterious, deep, complex and it’s easy to think they’re Ni-dominant from a first analysis, just like some ISTPs.”
I noticed “the internet” attributes INTJ to him, but could he be ISFP?
Also I noticed that INTJ is attributed a lot to Mark Zuckerberg, but I believe in him I detect “Fi-ignoring”. So ESTP or ENTP. Thoughts?
I am noticing a lot of attribution of INTJ to famous people. I find it weird.
ESTP matches the types of answers he gives to questions I think. Very uncomplicated and simple and he seems very kinetic in his energy. When he is next to Sheryl Sandberg in an interview, she seems to give more layered answers (and also with a totally different focus). Whereas his answers seem to be more concrete. Anyhow… just a guess. Maybe he is INTJ, but I wish more people online considered the POSSIBILITY of ESTP.
Or Zuckerberg is istj.
So Zuckerberg could be Fe ignoring instead of Fi ignoring. I easily can picture him F ignoring of some kind.
Here are some links to quotes by the actresses in case any of you are interested.
Julia Stiles:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/julia_stiles.html
Claire Danes:
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Claire+Danes
Hilary Swank
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Hilary+swank
Gwyneth Paltrow
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Gwyneth+Paltrow
Cameron Diaz
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Cameron+Diaz
Heather Graham
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Heather+Graham
Jodie Foster
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Jodie+Foster
Judy Davis
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Judy+Davis
Jennifer Garner
http://www.brainyquote.com/search_results.html?q=Jennifer+Garner
For fun, these are some cringe worthy quotes from Gwyneth Paltrow. She seems quite the clueless entitled twit here, which may be unfair – but there are site after site of her being off putting – unlike the other women.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/10-epic-quotes-gwyneth-paltrow/story?id=23070550
At a quick glance I picked up a lot of Fi in most of them and Claire Danes and Julia Stiles sounded most alike. Maybe there is a tidbit or two to point us in the right direction in these to add to the videos.
What a researcher you are:)
Btw, Paltrow is such a character lol. Her cooking book has these glamor photos of herself. On one page you have a recipe for whatever, and on the partnered page, a “darling” photo of her. Lol. Instead of a photo of the food.
I looked into the education of some of these actors to see if I could find any type of pattern. Julia Stiles graduated from Columbia with a degree in Psychology, Jodie Foster graduated from Yale with a degree in English, Jennifer Garner has a Drama degree but started out in Chemistry, and Clair Danes studied Psychology at Yale but dropped out after a few years. All of them were liberal arts majors. There are a few academic tendencies among the MBTI types that have been studied. It is said that ISTPs tend to struggle in school and are the most likely to drop out of college. I am sure there are plenty of ISTPs who go to college and complete their degrees, but this indicator is something I can’t help but consider. Also, fewer T types are represented in the degree types represented here, but that hardly means they couldn’t be. There are plenty of INTJs, for instance, who become psychologists and psychiatrists, which often operate on a “colder”more cerebral way among the mental health fields than say, professional counseling, marriage and family therapy, etc…
That coupled with the fact that a few seem very extroverted, others seem introverted, some seem to be feelers, and some seem to be thinkers just is making me crazy in trying to find a fit for all of them that seems plausible.
Claire Danes strikes me as ISFPish (soft, sensitive, a little self effacing);Jennifer Garner strikes me as ESFJish (she is said to have a bit of germ phobia, she has a motherly quality, seems very very sweet, and I’ve heard her described as highly organized and sometimes controlling); Julia Stiles seems ISTPish just because she seems tough in a Clint Eastwood kind of way; Gwyneth Paltrow seems ISTJish; Hilary Swank I’m not sure about. Cameron Diaz and Heather Graham seem ESTPish to me. It is hard to find one type to encompass them all. Anyone else dying to be put out of their misery? 🙂
Okay, ESTP and that is my final answer! It doesn’t feel exact, but work I need to do has been put off too long and temporary closure is necessary to get going. I can’t wait to check back and find out what is decided about these ladies. This has been so highly entertaining and distracting. Good parlor game, Blake. Have a great day everyone.
NO!
Unacceptable!
I can buy that maybe Jodie Foster is something else, like ISTP perhaps, but Judy Davis as being INTJ?.. doesn’t seem right.
INTJs do usually come off as eccentric and moody, but my impression is that it’s usually hot and bitey with irritation or indignation. Judy just seemed too melancholic and watery.
May, I agree with you. I have a little protest going on inside, but for the purpose of the game I decided to take these two out of the equation and just go for one type for all of the others. What type do you see in common for the others?
I just chose ESTP, but am hardly confident that this suits all of them.
I’m making a liar out of myself because I said I need to go, and I do, but tarrying here is just too much fun. Self control please descend NOW!
I don’t think I can really decide on all the others as one type, but I’m feeling it’s probably something containing Fi (dominant, auxillary, or even tertiary?). They are all a bit quirky in their own special ways (yoga, special interest causes, random lifestyle choices), and though they may seem extroverted, that could just be their persona for the sake of interviewing.
I guess I would just throw in for any FP to be my guess. I can’t really decide between ISFP, INFP, ENFP, ESFP though. — It also could be that Blake is just off and they are in fact all different. lol
It is maddening and frustrating to try to find one slot for all the women, but it is also a very distracting exercise. These women don’t all appear to be one single personality type, but there will be no doubt good arguments and evidence that they are. Until we can test everyone and verify it with brain scans and DNA tests, we cannot know for sure. We can take a flying good stab at it though.
“I just chose ESTP, but am hardly confident that this suits all of them.”
Long long ago this was my first guess due to Heather Graham’s resemblance to a friend (the love of sex and everything about her).
But this doesn’t seem to match the hints Blake left.
I did notice that Blake has no entry on ESTPs on his site. Is he gearing up to one?
I changed my mind. I think Heather Graham is ESTP who knows how to turn on her Fe. She is the copy of a friend whom everybody loved and whom all the guys slept with. This friend was not Fi she was most definitely T (just in case anyone would doubt she is a math professor), but she really knew how to work that Fe and would do the same side tilt and luring eyes that Heather Graham does. Honestly, who wants to bet me money about Heather Graham:) This type is very fun to hang out with, quite charming, but often the hanging out means doing things together more than anything else. You move out of the city you will have a harder time maintaining the friendship. If you want to maintain the friendship, you basically have to buy an airplane ticket to do things together. That is the version of friendship with an ESTP like Heather Graham. So IF IT IS TRUE THAT THEY ARE ALL THE SAME TYPE, puzzle is solved. Heather looks both very comfortable and nervous. I bet she can be a lot more scandalous in a more relaxed setting where image does not matter. Provocative as heck. Anyone care to disagree? I am feeling very good about this guess and am just waiting for Blake to say it’s true:) If it’s not true, there must be more than one type.
this makes them seem itsp never mind:
Jennifer Garner is definitely an ESFJ.. What I see is Fe dom with weak Ti.. That’s when they go rambling like that without thinking about what they’re saying and at times being more honest and frank than they wished to be.. It’s very endearing.. Also, that smile.. That’s an ESFJ smile.. It’s genuine.. There’s an almost childlike vibe that ESFJs give off while at the same time being control freaks in a strange way.. They are all about family and small incidents and experiences.. So yeah I can’t believe Jennifer Garner is the same type as Jodie Foster or Cameron Diaz..
I think that Cameron Diaz is an ESFP with really well developed Te.. Atleast she’s trying to develop it.. That’s what I got from the book video.. Getting all the scientific facts right and being in control of your body image.. And the video in which she’s younger.. That’s total ESFP dripping sex appeal with their Se and Fi.. She’s also kind of harsh.. I would’ve gone for ESTP but i think ESTP comes off as warmer because of their tertiary Fe.. And note how her wide smile is different from that of Jennifer Garner.. It’s a more unconscious Fe id smile..
Julia Stiles strikes me as ISTP.. She’s badass and smart.. I also saw this interview of hers where she awkwardly started asking the interviewer questions to keep the conversation flowing, cause he wasn’t asking her any (inferior Fe).. Looks like ISTP..
Danes I think might be ESTP.. Her Fe (too many facial expressions while speaking to be displaying Fi) doesn’t come to her naturally but she tries hard to make it happen.. I think her video that Blake shared isn’t a fair enough representation of her.. She was young.. And she seems to have grown more introverted with age.. Maybe her aux Ti growing stronger?
Heather Graham is ESFP.. Not as secure and strong as Cameron Diaz though..
Gwyneth Paltrow I can’t be sure.. She’s so full of herself and says really obnoxious things.. I don’t think any healthy version of any type would do that.. But I could imagine a really unhealthy ESTJ/ENTJ behaving that way..
Hilary swank could be ISFJ.. She’s kind and strong and quiet and hard working.. A lot of people are saying INFJ.. But I sense Si rather than Ni.. Especially after reading her quotes..
Judy Davis more ISFP than INTJ to me..
So that leaves us with Jodie Foster.. If I had to pick an INTJ from this lot I would vote for Foster.. That pride in academics and the composed way in which she spoke about her love life and also that shy smile.. Yeah I think she’s surely more INTJ than the others.. My dad is an INTJ and her vibe seemed most similar to that of his.. Judy Davis comes close because of her Ni Fi but I didn’t feel like her control over Te was strong enough..
I could be wrong about everything.. I’m just guessing based on what they make me feel :p
I’m guessing Blake thinks they’re all either ISTP/ESTP though.. I’m curious.. Why Blake? Why? :p
And thank you so much for this post.. It’s so much fun.. Made me think after a long time 😀
“I’m guessing Blake thinks they’re all either ISTP/ESTP… Why Blake? Why?”
Perfect. Agreed. It will be interesting to see what he has to say and it will no doubt be more food for thought. That is why we love this site, isn’t it?
I also agree with a lot of your typing. I too see Foster as the INTJ, Davis as an ISFP. I really, really agree about Jennifer Garner. I too see Julia Stiles as an ISTP. I first felt that both Cameron Diaz and Heather Graham were ESFPs, but I am okay with ESTP that has just been softened due to gender roles and expectation. I could be persuaded either way on CD and HG. You could be right about Hilary Swank, but I am not at all clear on her type. I said earlier I thought INFP, but I have not been confident on this one at all.
I think Danes is some kind IxFP though. I even felt she was an introvert in her teenage video, despite how outgoing and lighthearted she appears. Gwyneth seems ISTJ all the way. At least this is how I see them.
In the end, ESTP is the answer I give to meet the parameters of the assignment, but I can also imagine Blake getting at ISTP too. I even considered Isfp, but didn’t his hint point towards a T? I am not sure what he considers the “eager beaver” position, but he said Ni was in that position. Is it the tertiary or the inferior placement? Dunno. I went with the inferior function because doesn’t it seem all types seem to crave more development of their inferior function? It could be the tertiary because we tend to loop with it and our dominant when we are not prioritizing our auxiliary, so that could be deemed eager too.
What fun this has all been. Blake, it appears that we are slowing down on comments. Will we receive your answer soon? It is almost like too much tickling after a while. This torturous wait encourages more mental squirming that is as automatic as wiggles and laughter when a feather runs across skin.
“You could be right about Hilary Swank, but I am not at all clear on her type. I said earlier I thought INFP, but I have not been confident on this one at all.”
Hi Rita, I am very doubtful that she could be INFP. First off, her way of sitting is very relaxed and if you pushed on her she would probably hold her space. I am INFP, and I can tell that if someone gets really near me I start backing away. She is more “tough” than an INFP.
Hey Rita!
” I am not sure what he considers the “eager beaver” position, but he said Ni was in that position. Is it the tertiary or the inferior placement? ”
I’m not sure about this either.. I would guess tertiary over inferior.. Only because in one of his INFJ articles he calls Ti the ‘tertiary temptation’.. Something one is eager to practice or aspires to? In that case that would make them Fe inferior and Ti dom (ISTP) or Te inferior and Fi dom (ISFP)..
Or does he mean eager to master? Then that would be inferior Ni.. And then yes, ESTP or ESFP..
We could rule out ISFP and ESFP because he hinted preference for thinking over feeling.. But it would be easier to exercise feeling if it were tertiary rather than inferior.. So the best bet would be ESTP..
Ahh I’m so confused.. But our estimates of their actual types range over all these types.. So I’m open to anything now.. As long as it’s not drastically different like INTP.. That would kill me (highly improbable though) :p
To Lunar:
She seemed that way to me too, but there was something that felt a bit intuitive and a bit feely, but a subdued feeling that simmers and brews beneath the surface and occasionally bubbles to the surface. Still, she did not have that detectable INFPish essence thing. I am stymied. I do not think she is an INFJ though. What do you think about Piggie’s Isfj for her? Brew worthy suggestion, I think.
Rita, I think it’s a definite possibility. There are interviews of her where she actually starts crying thinking about hatred. Then she tells a story about not being able to save a man once and she starts crying. She is a softie in some ways. But I know both an ISTJ softie and an ESTP softie. The ISTJ softie is the most soft-hearted sweetie pie. She is very dutiful and hard working and you can see the Te in her. Work always comes before everything. But other than that, you can constantly see her caring nature. She is less boring than a lot of ISTJs I know. The ESTP softie burst out crying watching a movie about sisters. It made reminded her of her sister. She had to leave the room and everything. Being a softie doesn’t always mean you’re an F type. So I have no clue. I reached a moment of saturation where I need to take a break from this stuff.
“Being a softie doesn’t always mean you’re an F type.” That’s the truth! I am an F type, but sometimes my very fun ENTP husband shows an occasional softer side than I do. Occasionally! My ISTJ (or so I type him) is all Mr. Logic and icy judgment in black/white terms and all duty bound, but then he names his coy fish and is sentimental as heck about his dogs. He put together a montage of all the labs they’ve had through the years and set it to music. Often I think some T types are more vulnerable to emotion than F types because they don’t privilege and invite all emotions as easily as we do. Well, in some cases. The F is guarded and under wraps and is not allowed out to play as much, so like muscles it does not get the exercise in them so their feelings are prone to more serious injury.
Above edit. The ISTJ I speak of is my father-in-law. The words were definitely typed, but accidentally highlighted and deleted.
Well, I don’t know about you girls, but I love this site because most of the time Blake knows what he’s talking about. He gets things right.
Now, I’m not that concerned with Blake’s answer for this challenge. No matter what he says, he’s wrong. These girls have very different types, and none of them is INTJ.
Lucas, you don’t think any of the women are an INTJ? So, you disagree about Judy Davis and you don’t think Jodie Foster or any of the others is an INTJ? Will you please name a famous female who you think may be an INTJ if you can think of any? I know they are supposed to be very rare, so that would be great for another perspective.
Wow Lucas, you are very certain about Judy! I am more inclined towards INTJ. The reason is that as an INFP, I am very susceptible to Te. And I usually can feel the difference between strong and inferior Te. Inferior Te is usually something I can relate to and don’t like to watch….. Strong Te captivates me. I find Judy sufficiently cutting that she feels like an INTJ to me. However, I am not familiar with the ISFP type. That type is kind of new for me. So no “real” person to compare to. I find that actual people in my life are more useful than abstract notions or videos of people. Only get a sense after some level of intimacy. Wish I knew an ISFP intimately:)
Rita, I think Aubrey Plaza could be INTJ?
Lunar, I had to look her up and recognized her from P&R. He affect on the show seems a bit that way. I haven’t seen her in interviews or anything, so just don’t know.
Blake previously typed Kate Bush as an INTJ, here’s an interview of her around the same age as Judy in the first video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_vHki95cc
I can see some similarities but also Kate is much less expressive and rambling. Doesnt mean Judy’s not an INTJ but its interesting to compare them.
As I see it, Judy Davis is the INTJ of that group ALMOST without question. I think that if Blake hadn’t included that first interview, there would not be as much doubt. I believe it threw many (most) people off. Just to be fair, in only that interview, Judy Davis does look like one of my Aunts who is an ESFP and even has some similar speaking mannerisms as her, so I could see how some people would get the vibe of her being an SFP stuck in some kind of Ni-Fi loop. That did cross my mind. I understand that. The second interview however, leaves little doubt about her being an INTJ. Female INTJs will frequently not come across as dry as their male counterparts, but in the second interview, her strong Te was clear. If she isn’t an INTJ, then I guess ISFP would be my somewhat distant second choice. I can also say that if I only had the first interview to go off of, I wouldnt be that sure about her type either, but I don’t think there is an ISFP out there who can speak like Judy did in that second interview and be convincingly ISFP. I even said that she came across as a female version of Hitchens in my original comment. If anyone can find one ISFP that talks like Judy does in the second interview, then please post a video or give a name of them here. Also, I would guess that many people here would agree that SFPs are probably the most fashion and appearance conscious. it doesn’t seem like judy really gives a fuck about her appearance in either of those two interviews, but maybe someone here will disagree? Really, i think that she even looks like Hitchens in that second interview, LOL. As for her first interview, hey, everyone has an off day every once in a while, but even then, I didn’t see her as truly an SFP, although I did consider it. I admit I probably haven’t done as much research about her as some other people on here. I did watch those two interviews plus another one that was on YouTube from Sept 2011. I don’t think that it is too easy to mistake INTJs for ISFPs. Maybe there’s some other evidence that points to her being an ISFP that I don’t know about. I’ll consider it.
Also, Jordan proposed that Hitchens could be an ENTJ, and I never really though about that, but I could absolutely see that now. I would still probably go with INTJ though
“Really, i think that she even looks like Hitchens in that second interview, LOL.”
Lol, I actually see what you mean.
Just for clarity, I currently think that Hitchens is an ENTP. I meant that I can see how others can see him as ENTJ. I mentioned that more for the sake of a twisted argument I was trying to make: That ENTJs and ENTPs resemble each other more than either resembles INTJs, because of their Extraversion which makes them naturally better at appearing communicative to others, which is what people are thinking Judy lacks. I think those people might be confusing INTJs for ENTJs (and ENTPs in the case of Hitchens). Lol. I think people associate quickness of response with intelligence (and eye contact) and since INTJs are stereotyped as intelligent, people look for signs of intelligence in those types and if they don’t see it, they struggle to believe those people can be INTJs. But INTJs are introverted, intuitive, thinking types: there’s a lot of cerebration happening that can prevent them from being as *apparently* intelligent as an Extraverted type.
Yeah, I definitely dont think that quickness of speech is a defining INTJ trait in any description I’ve seen of them. I know a few INTJs, and some speak faster than others, but they almost always appear thoughful. I think that Jamie from the Mythbusters is an example of an INTJ with a slower speech style.
Have you even MET an actual INTJ? I am a female INTJ in my 40s. As a child, the child actress Jody Foster was one of the few actresses I connected to as being like me. Complete tomboy, the almost looked like a boy and could kick any boys ass who dared to challenge her. Watch her in childhood work. She is an INTJ. And if you think I’m not an INTJ, I have had my cognitive function tested. 100% Ni, extreme Te, lower Fi and very low Se. By the way Jody Foster is very private but married to a woman.
Have you even MET an actual INTJ?
Yes.
I am a female INTJ in my 40s. As a child, the child actress Jody Foster was one of the few actresses I connected to as being like me. Complete tomboy, the almost looked like a boy and could kick any boys ass who dared to challenge her. Watch her in childhood work. She is an INTJ.
I don’t see how that conclusion (She is an INTJ) follows from the premises. You say you identified with her but you that is no proof that she is an INTJ. Even if you are one. An INTJ could identify with someone of the ISTP type. ISTP is the natural mother to INTJ.
By the way Jody Foster is very private but married to a woman.
Yeah, I know. So?
You can see what I mean about Jody Foster in this 1979 interview.. She went to a French speaking school system with college level classes and I believe did actually go to an ivy league college. You can see the flatter INTJ voice and limited forced expression. Also keep in mind that as types age, they develope more of their weaker preferences like Se and Si in the case of INTJ. Notice how deep she is for a 17 year old and analytical she is when she mentions her favorite actors. She chooses for the exact reason I like actors…for their range ability. If I can forget who they are as a celebrity, I love them. She mentions DeNiro…one of my favorites (along with Anthony Hopkins or Meryl Streep for the same reason. ). Check this out… She is classic INTJ female teen..
https://youtu.be/XXyaTKBYqpk
You can see what I mean about Jody Foster in this 1979 interview
Yeah, that’s the exact interview I posted in the first article in this series of Guess The INTJ Woman. I posted another interview when she was older (around Silence of the Lambs) for comparison.
She went to a French speaking school system with college level classes and I believe did actually go to an ivy league college.
OK, so she is really smart. ISTPs can be very smart and scholastic, no?
You can see the flatter INTJ voice and limited forced expression.
ISTP can have a flat monotonic voice and limited expression. They are Ti dominant with Fe inferior.
Notice how deep she is for a 17 year old and analytical she is when she mentions her favorite actors. She chooses for the exact reason I like actors…for their range ability.
Yes, she was mature for her age. Yes, she seems analytical. Ti dominants are analytical. Just because she chooses her favorite actors for the same reason you do doesn’t make her an INTJ. Ostensibly, many people would think the best actor/actresses are the ones with the best range.
I do not see Ni dominance in Jody Foster.
Judy Davis, on the other hand, yes.
Blake, in Judy’s case it’s a really oh my lord instance of Ni. Screams at one really. Where is Judy? She is in the room but she’s not. It’s FREAKY. I dig.
I think you’re more right, Jenny.
Jody Foster may be ISTP possibly (??) but she’s closer to INTJ resonance than Davis. I think a lot of INTJ females would bristle at Judy Davis being one of “their tribe”.
If that was “Ni”, that would probably be perceived as the side-eye inducing version. lol Because Davis’ version of Ni seems alien to me or laced with murky feelings, I’m going to say it’s her tertiary Ni, like from an ISFP.